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Larry's Glade

Now Lo-Tech nano - now up and running with photos

Must have missed this journal but it's a good read, shame your hc has melted, it happened to me then it got loads of algae so I just chucked it. Definatly do a moss carpet, so much easier, and if kept well trimmed can look just as cool I think. If u do get some shrimp on there they will love it to.
Where did you get your mini Xmas from? I need to carpet my 60l and need loads of moss, I like the sound of mini moss:)
 
Re: Now Lo-Tech nano - now up and running with photos

Thanks. Am thinking a bit more patience might be worthwhile. Whilst most of it is now brown mush there looks like some possible new growth near the front. Couple more weeks should tell.

Not mini-xmas, I'm afraid, just the normal stuff. The LFS I bought it from (Living Waters, South London) do do the mini version but haven't had it in stock for some time. The only other place I've seen it is here:

http://www.aquaticplants.eu.com/acatalog/MONTHLY_SPECIAL_OFFERS.html

Someone on here (sorry, can't remember who) has used mini spiky moss too.

More bad news on the tank. I now have hydra. These are definitely not good for shrimp so may have to dust down that panacur after all.
 
Re: Now Lo-Tech nano - now up and running with photos

Test readings today:

NH4 - 0
NO2 - 0
NO3 - 50
PH - 7
KH - 1
GH - 9

Tank is cycled. Something's pushing the GH up hard, I assume it's the pagoda stone. Not affecting the KH though so good shrimp breeding parameters. Of course all these numbers may be nonsense :rolleyes:

Still, I trust them enough to believe the tank is cycled. So I could start adding livestock.

I was planning to start with 3 of the 4 red nosed shrimp currently in my main tank. However

1) tank is overrun with hydra. There are also still some planaria in there, not many though
2) the shrimp will rip to shreds what's left of my HC. Maybe it's beyond saving but feel I should give it a bit longer in case of miraculous recovery.

May hold out another week then dose panacur, rip out HC (assuming no recovery), do big water change, replace HC with moss carpet, put in shrimp.

Sound like a sensible plan?
 
Re: Now Lo-Tech nano - now up and running with photos

First post but I've been reading a variety of threads on here for a few weeks!

Great read indeed, I've recently acquired a 10 litre tank and it's currently cycling, waiting for me to chose plants and scape it! I plan on using a cheap a Co2 system along with relatively easy plants to grow, having read you're progress I'm pretty confident that xmas moss (or similar) is the way to go for the carpet!

Looking forward to your progress :thumbup:
 
Re: Now Lo-Tech nano - now up and running with photos

Thanks very much Sentral, honoured to have your first post on my journal :)

Just dosed panacur into the tank. Will see what the infestation looks like by the weekend and if good will do first water change and add some shrimp.

All but 2 stems of the zosty is melting. Other stems are surviving though. All hope for the HC is now lost so will replace with a moss carpet, probably this weekend.
 
Re: Now Lo-Tech nano - now up and running with photos

So, dosed panacur on Wednesday. Knocked out the hydra and most of the planaria. Saw some of the latter on Friday but not yesterday. Most snails seemed to have survived.

Yesterday did a serious clean of the tank. Scraped all of the dead critters off the glass, cleaned the rock, pulled out dying plants etc. This is what was left of my HC experiment:

107114.jpg


Didn't have time to replace with moss but might manage that today or tomorrow. Was going to go for anchor moss but I picked up a grid of it yesterday and the amount isn't nearly enough. Will go for xmas as a temporary measure.

Did a big water change and drip acclimatised 13 chili rasbora and 2 red nosed shrimp. This is what the tank looked like last night:

107115.jpg


This is what I found next to it this morning:

117111.jpg


:(

This is with the glass cover on too. The other one's still in there but does not look happy. Will put it back in the main tank. Fish seem fine though. Maybe the water's too soft for these shrimp? Maybe an amano might be ok?
 
Re: Now Lo-Tech nano - now up and running with photos

No osmocotte left in tank? No ammonia? Maybe some residue from planaraia treatment? Shrimps are ultra sensitive. You will learn through mistakes no worries.. You basically redone tank from scratch you should wait before putting shrimps in and do few smaller water changes.
 
Re: Now Lo-Tech nano - now up and running with photos

I'm not so sure Radik. You're right, shrimps are sensitive but so are boraras IME. The fish are looking happier than they have in months. Even a particularly sick one that was being blown around by the current, twitching, in my main tank is now swimming about and feeding.

The other shrimp settled down after an hour or two so I left it in. Is happily grazing now. Should have said - I only pulled out the two rocks at the front to clean. Did a big water change because I was worried about the effect of pulling up the melted HC on water quality. Used re-con RO for the change.

There was no sign of ammonia and nitrite yesterday. Osmocote is in there but not leaching into the water column it seems. I don't think the panacur is an issue. Have used it in tanks with very sensitive shrimp before with no ill effects.
 
Re: Now Lo-Tech nano - now up and running with photos

Have just added 3 CBS (one of them looks S grade :D ) and the final stray chili from my main tank. Have also just stupidly over fed rather a lot so am going to have to do a water change tomorrow morning.
 
Re: Now Lo-Tech nano - now up and running with photos

In my experience Red Nose Shrimp were really difficult to keep. I remember finding somewhere that they actually live in estuaries so maybe they are more suited to brakish water? A shame though as they are such a nice looking shrimp
 
Re: Now Lo-Tech nano - now up and running with photos

Paulo told me recently that he thinks they tend not to survive more than 3 months in FW tanks. Don't think I'll be buying any more.

Don't know if people have been following the P@H nano thread

http://www.ukaps.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=16036&start=60

but it emerges that the filter in the tank eats fish and shrimp. Have lost at least 3 chilis to it, including one death watched live. Also the post above was wrong - I had 4 CBS, 1 A & 3 S grade. After I found the final one dead today I decided enough was enough.

Went to LFS planning to get a Dennerle nano clean. They were out of stock so I bought a Sera fil 60. Very nice internal. Two compartments, one of which I've put the sponge from the old filter in, the other I've filled with siporax.

Bad move. Firstly it's too big. Won't fit into the right hand corner without being buried deep into the substrate. Secondly it's a 340 lph with no flow adjustment. I set the spray bar up to flow against the back glass to break the flow. When I turned it on the water started gushing up the back glass threatening to flow over and the chilis started getting knocked about all over the place.

Jammed the canister full of bits of spare sponge. Made no difference. In a desperate last attempt I jammed the spraybar itself with sponge (I kid you not) and this has done the trick. Flow still strong but manageable. Hopefully this won't blow the thing up.

Also rescaped a wee bit. Pulled out a lot of the dying stems and planted a bunch of very healthy stuff which is still being identified:

http://www.ukaps.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=16822

Also broke up the wood and rearranged it closer together. Couple of pics:

217115.jpg


217116.jpg


The very badly tied left hand moss mesh is going to be replaced with a smaller one of something uber rare from my main tank.

Comments, critiques and sympathy welcome :arghh:
 
Re: Lo-Tech nano - Filter Impeller Massacre

This thing is turning into the shrimp tank of the death.

I know I've lost at least a couple to the murderous filter and assumed the subsequent poisoning of the water did for the rest. However, I put two in there at the weekend and found one of them dead yesterday morning. The other one looks very lethargic, barely moving. Did some tests and everything looks fine. Phosphate and nitrate levels a bit high but fine.

Except the PH. Don't know exactly what the reading is as I use a narrow range test that only goes up to 7.6, but it was high. 8.5, maybe 9. Did an immediate 50% RO change and PH came down to 6.7.

What's causing this? Thought maybe the pagoda rock which isn't inert but the tank water is soft. KH at 1 GH at 5. Could it be my ferts? Instead of ADA stuff I was using I've been dropping in 10ml of EI mix once a week. Reckon I should switch to TPN+?
 
Re: Lo-Tech nano - Filter Impeller Massacre

Do the test. Put pagoda to RO water and if you have TDS meter (you should if you have RO unit) watch TDS increase over time. I did that with mini landscape stone and he gave me +30TDS per day and that's why I hate using them in shrimp tanks. You need inert stones also if you have RO you can remove ADA and go inert substrate. You will get stable conditions this way.

For low tech you do not need ADA really, I have just gravel and use fert once a week now next to window getting daylight (no sun) and it is fine with 3 pregnant CRS and recently 1 pregnant Sakura. I mix RO with Tap 50/50 to get to KH4 and my PH is still around 7.6 but CRS are not bothered.

If you want to keep shrimps without losses make it simple as possible then you can experiment with high tech later.

Regarding filter I am using Dennerle nano filter which is small, good and safe.
 
Re: Lo-Tech nano - Filter Impeller Massacre

Radik, you're probably right. I have been eyeing that rock with suspicion for some time. As you know Erdal has the same stuff in his nanos and he has problems. Whilst overstocking is the likely candidate in that situation I don't think the rock can be ruled out. Don't have a TDS meter but may attempt to do what you suggest and use my other test kits.

In the meantime PH is holding fairly steady - was 6.9 yesterday. Will test regularly. Remaining shrimp seems ok. Am switching to TPN+ too. Oh, and have put the Dennerle nano filter in yesterday.
 
Re: Lo-Tech nano - Filter Impeller Massacre

So, I came home about an hour ago to this:

297113.jpg

297112.jpg

297111.jpg


Don't know if you can make it out in the pics but basically all fish dead. Proper horror movie scene. The one at the front is still breathing but not doing much else. Have left it in there but, barring a miracle, will be coming out shortly too.

The shrimp seems fine. In fact better than ever.

First thing I did was go down the shops, buy a pack of fags and light up (gave up a couple of days ago so a bit of a setback there). Next thing I did was put some water in some vials and did a 70% remin RO water change.

Going to do some tests now. Already did the PH which is where it should be - 6.9.

The only thing I did yesterday was put in the the Dennerle nano filter. Obviously using the same filter media from previous filter (sponge that came with the P@H one and some siropax that had been running in the sera one). This naturally involved taking out the white sponge and plastic surround that was in the filter.

Anyone who has this filter know what I've done? Have I screwed the flow so nothing is going through the media?

Someone posted a thread a few months ago entitled "About ready to give up" or something like that. At the time I have to admit I scoffed. Now I know how they feel.

:arghh: :arghh: :arghh: :arghh: :arghh:
 
Re: Lo-Tech nano - Filter Impeller Massacre

Test results
NH4 - 0
NO2 - 0
NO3 - 50ish
PH - 6.9
KH - 1.1
GH - 5.6

So no ammonia readings, despite the fact that there may have been dead fish in there all day. Now I know that test kits aren't very reliable but this JBL ammonia kit has always picked up something when I've suspecting an ammonia spike might have occurred.

So it may be that most of the fish died in the last few hours and thus hadn't polluted the water. Which would also suggest it's not an issue with the filter not doing it's job.

So what is going on?

:?

Help please.
 
Re: Lo-Tech nano - Filter Impeller Massacre

Nitrates at high ppm can be also toxic to fish and shrimps and you do not have enough plants to absorb them fast. Maybe you are at peak of nitrogen cycle and ammonia is converting fast to nitrites and then nitrates + you added tpn+. So maybe half of what you measured would be Ok around 20-25ppm. Do
 
Re: Lo-Tech nano - Filter Impeller Massacre

...One of this ones...:(

Matter complicating as all shrimps are fine( ? )

Was filter creating any water movement when you came back?
Definitely something worth resolving for the future reference...
 
Re: Lo-Tech nano - Filter Impeller Massacre

Thanks both.

No sign of the shrimp since I last posted so doesn't look good there.

Greg, almost certain now it's not an issue with the filter. Was on low but definitely producing a flow. In addition, no ammonia or nitrite readings. There is a small issue with it, by the way. When you remove the media it comes with and replace with something like siropax you lose the plastic guard that stops something getting to the impellor. A shimp would have to do a lot of wriggling around to get through but it is conceivable. I think I'm going to put a layer of sponge underneath the impellor just to be safe.

Radik, the nitrate levels in here have been bothering me a bit from the start. They've always been high since cycling and never really come down. This is despite not adding any N for most of the tank's life. I only started doing that a couple of weeks ago.

To be clear I haven't started using the TPN+ yet, was going to start on Sunday. Last ferts I added were 10ml EI mix about a week ago. So whilst nitrate levels could be a problem I don't know if the background level would cause such a sudden wipeout of all inhabitants. Unless it's interacting with something else.

Darren suggests either something bacterial or PH shock as an explanation for such sudden death. Can't see where anything bacterial could have come from. However, given I picked up high PH early in the week could it be a delayed reaction to that?
 
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