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Libba's 60P

Libba

Libba

Member
Joined
12 Jan 2021
Messages
237
Location
Australia
Tank: ADA 60P
Cabinet: cheap Aqua One cabinet
Light: WRGB 2
Substrate: Amazonia 2
Filter: Biomaster 250
Hardscape: "Luohan" rock from Bioscape
CO2: Keg King dual stage regulator, Qanvee inline diffuser

Plants: I haven't made any final decisions regarding plants. I'll probably go with dwarf hairgrass or Glosso in the foreground. Possibly rotalas/Ludwigia super red/Ludwigia arcuata in the background. I was going to do soft water plants such as syngonanthus and toninas but I'm thinking this rock might raise my KH somewhat. I gave it the acid test and there was some significant fizzing occuring.

Fauna: Predominantly Australian native shrimp. I'll probably start with Paratya Australiensis and then try some Caridina sp NT nilotica and Caridina Longirostris.

This week I'll just be playing with different rock layouts. Hopefully by the weekend I'll have something I'm happy with so I can glue it together and flood the tank.
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Plans changed pretty significantly with this one. The rocks didn't look good submerged; they had a bit of pink colouratuon that became visible underwater. I ended up breaking down my 30cm cube and moving the plants from that into this tank. So there's Rotala Green, Rotala Blood Red and Staurogyne Repens. I also added some tissue culture Glosso and some alternanthera reineckii mini that I had growing emersed in a mini greenhouse. There's also 10 North Queensland algae shrimp from my cube inhabiting the tank.

Day one:

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Day seven:

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Day Fourteen:

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Day 21:

Added 50 Paratya Australiensis and 4 Harlequin Rasboras. The four Rasboras are because it's all my LFS had in stock at the time. Will be adding another 8 or so soon. I know it's a bit early for adding livestock but because I dark started the tank for a couple of months and because I have decent plant mass I think it will be fine.

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Courtneybst said:
I admire how red your Blood Red Rotala is! Mine is a tinge of orange at best but I knew that would happen in my setup.
Click to expand...

I'm only dosing K and micros so not much nitrogen in the water column. It will be interesting to see how long I can sustain that.
 
Hi Courtneybst, I have Ludwigia super red and Rotala blood red in my tank because the 2hr aquarist page on red plants indicated that they will turn red without nitrate limitation.

I've found that to be the case and my Blood Red is a similar shade of pink(?) as the photo above. My tank nitrates measure at about 5-10mg

My Rotala H'ra remains orange which is fine, makes a nice contrast. Presume your blood reds are indeed blood reds and not a mislabeled H'ra or Colorata (I've seen it happen in local fish shops).
 
erwin123 said:
Hi Courtneybst, I have Ludwigia super red and Rotala blood red in my tank because the 2hr aquarist page on red plants indicated that they will turn red without nitrate limitation.

I've found that to be the case and my Blood Red is a similar shade of pink(?) as the photo above. My tank nitrates measure at about 5-10mg

My Rotala H'ra remains orange which is fine, makes a nice contrast. Presume your blood reds are indeed blood reds and not a mislabeled H'ra or Colorata (I've seen it happen in local fish shops).
Click to expand...
Hey Erwin, tbh I don't know what my nitrates are. The test is red no matter when and red is high 😅

My H'Ra is green with a slight orange underneath and the blood red is slightly pink. It should be authentic Blood Red as it came with an EU plant passport different from the H'Ra.
 
Day 30:

Everything has gone pretty smoothly to this point. I had 12 Harlequins but now have 9 due to jumping. The water parameters are good so not sure why they're jumping. Maybe it's just in their nature? Hopefully I don't lose too many more. I'm not too bothered about it as long as I have at least six. I've also lost a few Paratya Australiensis to jumping and also had a few deaths when I first put them in. I'd still have at least 40 I think.

Plant growth has been slow but steady. The alternanthera adjusted extremely well considering it had been growing emersed. I haven't had a lot of melting at all. There's some dead and decaying Glosso which would be from the initial tissue culture. The new Glosso growth looks good and healthy. It's taking it's time to fill in but I'm hoping to have a pretty full carpet in another month or so based on current growth rate.

Algae has been pretty minimal - just some hair algae on some of the S. Repens and the decaying parts of the Glosso. My strategy has been to spot dose a bit of excel but I'm really not too worried about it because I think it'll go away once everything is mature and settled.

20210608_160129.jpg
 
Time for some problem solving:

Right now I've removed my driftwood to soak in H2O2 because it was starting to get some BBA and a thick coat of green algae. I was spot dosing but since the wood is easier to remove I figured I'd save myself some time and just nuke it.

So the problem I have is my Glosso carpet. Growth has been painfully slow and lately it feels like it has stalled. It might fill in with time but honestly in some spots it doesn't look as healthy as it could be.

What I have noticed is that in one corner it is really thriving and has carpeted beautifully:

20210625_104241.jpg


So right off the bat I think I can rule out lighting. If it can grow that well in that one spot then light must be adequate. So what about nutrients or CO2? In theory there must be adequate CO2 and nutrients available if it can grow that well in one spot. So my hypothesis is that it's a problem with CO2/nutrient delivery, commonly referred to as flow. This is how the flow moves through the tank which is fairly easily observable due to dense CO2 mist:

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So what happens is the current hits that glass panel to the right of the tank then pushes straight down hard into that corner. It then glides over the top of the middle portion of the tank towards the filter inlet. So the corner is receiving a good amount of direct flow while the middle portion is sitting just under the current.

So how do we solve it? I can think of two reasonable practical solutions.

The first is that I use a powerhead to push the current down more into that middle part of the tank. I'm not sure if this would work exactly how I'm hoping. I'd probably position it under where I have my skimmer and aim it on a slightly downward angle towards the middle bottom of the tank.

The second option would be to use the spray bar method.

I think the spray bar method is going to be the best option because in theory it will create better flow for the plants at the back of the tank too. But the spray bar I've ordered is coming from overseas and will take a few weeks to get here. While I wait for that I'll play around with a powerhead and report back here with how it's going.
 
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The tank is looking good, and even the glosso is putting on growth if you compare to your image from 6th June. Gloss is, but all accounts, a tricky plant to carpet and a bit of a CO2 hog.

I'm trying to understand where the outlet is on your skimmer - does it output from those vents in the base, down towards the substrate? And are you running it 24/7?

If so, I'd wager that is the source of your problem with the uneven glosso growth. Skimmers are great, but in a CO2 injected tank, they naturally draw water from the CO2 degassed surface layer, and fire it back into the aquarium. I have found this on several of my tanks, that the plants directly within the outlet path of the skimmer suffer from CO2 deficiency with stunted growth etc. I would recommend you put it on a timer, and run it just at lights out.

Also, what ferts are you current dosing? You mention dosing K, and have recently started adding N, but what about P? if you are running lean ferts, rather than EI, you may need to increase quantities as the plant mass increases, so you don't hit any deficiencies.

Also as an aside, your drop checker is very light green/yellow, which means you're running it on the 'red-line', and is likely the cause of your livestock losses. You might want to dial it back a little, very slowly, over a number of weeks to get back to slightly greener drop checker colouration.
 
Wookii said:
The tank is looking good, and even the glosso is putting on growth if you compare to your image from 6th June. Gloss is, but all accounts, a tricky plant to carpet and a bit of a CO2 hog.

I'm trying to understand where the outlet is on your skimmer - does it output from those vents in the base, down towards the substrate? And are you running it 24/7?

If so, I'd wager that is the source of your problem with the uneven glosso growth. Skimmers are great, but in a CO2 injected tank, they naturally draw water from the CO2 degassed surface layer, and fire it back into the aquarium. I have found this on several of my tanks, that the plants directly within the outlet path of the skimmer suffer from CO2 deficiency with stunted growth etc. I would recommend you put it on a timer, and run it just at lights out.

Also, what ferts are you current dosing? You mention dosing K, and have recently started adding N, but what about P? if you are running lean ferts, rather than EI, you may need to increase quantities as the plant mass increases, so you don't hit any deficiencies.

Also as an aside, your drop checker is very light green/yellow, which means you're running it on the 'red-line', and is likely the cause of your livestock losses. You might want to dial it back a little, very slowly, over a number of weeks to get back to slightly greener drop checker colouration.
Click to expand...

Hey mate, thanks for your response.

You're right about the skimmer. But it is incredibly weak in terms of flow. It doesn't draw in much water and its output comes nowhere close to altering the general path that water moves around the tank. If you saw it in action I think you'd agree. There's still a very dense cloud of CO2 mist that passes over the Glosso in the middle. I will try moving it though just to rule that out as a possible problem.

I was dosing APT zero which is basically just K and micros. I switched to APT complete which has some N and some P, but it is lean by EI standards. I'm using ADA substrate with root tabs and all of my plants are rooted so I'm thinking nutrient deficiency is unlikely. Everything looks to be in great health apart from that middle section of Glosso.

Thanks for pointing out the drop checker. I actually installed a night light behind my tanks because most of the jumping was occuring overnight. I haven't had any fish jump since I did that so I'm hoping that is resolved now. I am working from home at the moment which allows me to observe my tank a lot during the day and I haven't seen any signs of distress in the fish. I will be purchasing a high quality pH probe very soon though so I can get my CO2 dialled in more precisely.

Thanks again for your input and for giving me a few more things to think about!
 
Mini update:

Added Syngonanthus Macrocaulon, Rotala Ramosior 'Florida' and some native moss that is supposed to grow similarly to flame moss. The tank is starting to have a bit of a Christmas vibe which I don't love. I'll see how things grow in and assess if I need to change anything after a few weeks. I also think it's time to get some glass lily pipes soon.

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How to grow Rotala ramosior Florida

coincidentally, 2hr aquarist just released an article on Rotala Florida. It seems to like a bit of hardness, whereas Syngonanthus likes soft water. I have both in my tank too, so I'm trying to figure out whats the best way to grow both :). Also, with the 80 umols of PAR recommendation, I've just bumped up the setting on my WRGB2 which is currently only on 65%!
 
erwin123 said:
How to grow Rotala ramosior Florida

coincidentally, 2hr aquarist just released an article on Rotala Florida. It seems to like a bit of hardness, whereas Syngonanthus likes soft water. I have both in my tank too, so I'm trying to figure out whats the best way to grow both :). Also, with the 80 umols of PAR recommendation, I've just bumped up the setting on my WRGB2 which is currently only on 65%!
Click to expand...

I just read that tonight...

It's important to draw a distinction here between GH and KH though. What Florida seems to require is high calcium (GH) which Syngonanthus species might actually be okay with. Have a read though this article:

Most "softwater" plant species are actually sensitive to high KH values and not GH per se. It is more accurate to then say that they prefer water with low carbonate hardness [low KH].

www.2hraquarist.com

How to grow softwater plants

How to grow softwater plants such as Tonina, Syngonanthus and Eriocaulon species. How to get softwater in my planted tank ? What parameters should I look out for when growing softwater plants? This page explores the water parameters and methods required to grow softwater plants.
www.2hraquarist.com www.2hraquarist.com
 
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