Limnophila aromatic are melting, and I realy dont see why!!

Discussion in 'Plant Help' started by el_tubaron, 14 Oct 2009.

  1. el_tubaron

    el_tubaron Newly Registered

    Messages:
    3
    Location:
    Portugal
    Hello,
    I hope some could help me to identify a macro or micro fert. deficiency, because I do not see what could be.

    First my Setup:
    Aquarium:
    150cmx50cmx50cm - 375L (100G)
    Light:
    3x70w HQI 5400K - 10 hours daily
    Filter:
    sump with 70l and 2 pumps Eheim 1250
    1 Koralia1
    Substrate:
    Seachem Flourite substrate fertile
    Fertilization:
    Jame's PMDD + PO4
    20ml daily macros + 10ml Seachem flourish (Micros)
    CO2 - 6b / s beginning 2 hours before turning on the lights and 1 hour after the lights turn off

    Parameters (API tests):
    KH = 6
    GH = 6
    PO4 = 1ppm / 1,5 ppm
    NO4 = 10ppm / 15ppm

    The photos:

    leafs001.jpg
    leafs002.jpg
    leafs003.jpg
    leafs004.jpg
    leafs005.jpg

    The Problem:
    The Limnophila aromatic are melting (rot) the tips (young leaves) and with many holes and cutouts in old leaves(see photo 4 and 5). The rest of the other plants do not have the symptom of melt (rot) the tips, however a Cryptocoryne wendtii green also has holes in old leaves (see photo 1 2 3).
    I do not see what the deficiency, because the parameter PO4 AND NO3 are ok (well I think they are :lol: )
    só micros? Fe? ???

    Algea:
    GreenSpots in small quantities in glass and BBA at the outlet of the filter tubes in very very small quantities.

    Thanks

    PS: Sorry about my poor English but my native language is Portuguese ;)
     
  2. ceg4048

    ceg4048 Expert/Global Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    8,953
    Location:
    Chicago, USA
    Hi,
    Your English seems fine to me. :thumbup:

    Your problem is CO2, CO2, CO2.

    Melting, holes, browning or any structural failure is always a CO2 deficiency.

    Cheers,
     
  3. chilled84

    chilled84 Member

    Messages:
    1,458
    Location:
    Newcastle
    I agree ceg, co2 is defo the prob. Its looks like a caterpiller has been munching for weeks in them picks.
     
  4. el_tubaron

    el_tubaron Newly Registered

    Messages:
    3
    Location:
    Portugal
    so increase CO2, well I thought 6b/s was enough the drop cheker are ligth green (with 4kh solution), well I can try that.
     
  5. ceg4048

    ceg4048 Expert/Global Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    8,953
    Location:
    Chicago, USA
    Well, it only matters what the plants think, not what we think. You have to interpret the evidence and not be blinded by preconceived assumptions on what you thought should be enough. If the damage is not due to animals munching, then structural failure can only ever be due to carbon starvation under high lighting.

    There are a variety of ways in which carbon starvation can occur:
    The first is poor injection rate.
    The second is excessive CO2 evaporation due to water splashing or other types of loss.
    The third is instability of injection rate or inconsistent application.
    The fourth is plant biomass outgrowing the initial injection rate.
    The fifth is poor flow rate which fails to deliver the CO2 to the plant beds.
    The sixth is poor distribution due to uneven flow patterns.
    Of course, one can have any combination of the above.

    This is a fairly large tank so it's very difficult to distribute CO2 properly. It could easily be that your distribution method is marginal. Following the 10X rule of thumb, a 330L tank ideally requires 3300LPH flow rate and it would need to be distributed evenly. This is especially true if you have a high plant mass which causes flow blockage or dead areas. It may be that you need to rework the distribution. You could also try turning on the gas even earlier and shutting it off earlier. There is no point leaving the gas running until after the lights go off for example. That's just a waste of gas. You could also prune heavily to lower the biomass and improve flow through the beds.

    Did you say you have a sump? Is the sump covered to minimize CO2 evaporation? Is flow in the sump disturbed by splashing?
    I don't know the answers to those questions or whether they are factors in your case, but these are typical problem areas that you must at least consider.
    What is clear though is that the evidence is undeniable. Barring herbivorous attack, tissue loss is as a result of an inability to maintain cell structure. Structure is composed of carbon and it must be cannibalized if there is insufficient carbon uptake from the surroundings to support the commanded growth rate. This can only be addressed by either increasing carbon uptake or by lowering the commanded growth rate via lowering the light intensity, or by both. Supplementation by liquid carbon can help in many cases, but is expensive for this size tank.

    Cheers,
     
  6. el_tubaron

    el_tubaron Newly Registered

    Messages:
    3
    Location:
    Portugal
    I know that the bubbles per second (it is just for compare), I use a drop checker to adjust the CO2 - it is Ligth green

    I have Hydor Koralia1 1500l/h + 1500l/h from the filter is about 3000l/h I thougth it was a good flow rate... (Maybe another Koralia!!).

    The sump are covered and the uptake intake are at the lower (always submerged) I don't think the problem is the sump, I think You are right about "poor distribution due to uneven flow patterns" and "poor flow rate which fails to deliver the CO2 to the plant beds." I'm gone try to tweak the flow and distribution and if needed increase the CO2

    PS: really thanks for the explication... It has to be the CO2...
     

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