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lljdma06's 8g nano 2009! Final tank shots

lljdma06

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Re: lljdma06's New Nano Dutch! The moss wall plan is up!

Hi a1matt! Thanks for the reply.

It's good to know that weeping moss grows fast. I will watch for any messiness.
 

JohnC

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Re: lljdma06's New Nano Dutch! The moss wall plan is up!

lljdma06 said:
Hi a1matt! Thanks for the reply.

It's good to know that weeping moss grows fast. I will watch for any messiness.

I love my weeping moss in my corner tank, it does bulk up pretty fast once it gets going and I have to retie huge chunks of it when it is in the outflow and starts drifting. but i don't really trim it like i did my old java moss.

Actually if you need some drop me a PM. i've got TONS.

Best Regards,
John
 

lljdma06

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Re: lljdma06's New Nano Dutch! The moss wall plan is up!

hijac said:
Actually if you need some drop me a PM. i've got TONS.

Best Regards,
John

Thank you for your offer. I already purchased some and I have to sort out the shipping and the total price with the seller.
:thumbup:
llj
 

Themuleous

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Re: lljdma06's New Nano Dutch! The moss wall plan is up!

Loving the moss wall at the back, should look cool once up and running. I always think a plant 'wall' at the back gives a difference sense of things to a tank.

Sam

PS - I knew you'd come around to our way of thinking eventually. You've got the CO2, now we just need to work on the EI ;) :p
 

lljdma06

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Re: lljdma06's New Nano Dutch! The moss wall plan is up!

Themuleous said:
Loving the moss wall at the back, should look cool once up and running. I always think a plant 'wall' at the back gives a difference sense of things to a tank.

Sam

PS - I knew you'd come around to our way of thinking eventually. You've got the CO2, now we just need to work on the EI ;) :p

Eh, I don't think I've got enough light to worry much about EI. Probably TPN+ is going to be enough for me. Especially with how I stock tanks. :p There's going to be like 30 fish in an 8g tank. I'm excited, I'm finding some really cool new species.

llj
 

lljdma06

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lljdma06's New Nano Dutch! More musings.

More Moss Musings

I was wavering whether or not to use thread for my moss wall venture. I decided against it. Incase the moss doesn't anchor to the wall, I want it to remain attached regardless. Thread degrades over time. So, I opted for a very fine test fishing line.

This is what I ended up with after about 20 minutes in the sports section of Kmart.

IMG_2844.jpg


IMG_2847.jpg


It is particularly well-suited for making knots and twisting, which is precisely what I want it to do. It is also strong and won't degrade. It is transparent, so it will be hard to see, yet it has a green tinge, so it will blend with the moss once it grows in.

Another advantage is that it give me a lot to work with for very little and I was able to splurge and purchase nice quality line. There were much cheaper lines available, but they came with warnings of lead content. Not that that is horrible, we use lead weights to anchor plants all the time, but it is never permanent and the moss wall will be up for much longer. I didn't want that risk.

Now, I just have to wait for the moss. :crazy:

Hiding everything

The CO2 tubes, the light cord, and the HOB cords can create an unsightly mess. I wanted to hide as much of the hardware as possible this time. I found this neat little box at Marshall's (I know not your typical fish place).

IMG_2852.jpg


It is flimsy enough that I can make holes for the tubing and chords and ventilated so that I can hide the power strip. It also fits well underneath the end table, effectively hiding all my hardware. I also purchased these suction cups.

Suctioncups.jpg


These will secure the CO2 tubing close to the wall of the aquarium. I'm thinking about everything with this tank.

Now, I just have to wait for them to arrive. :crazy:

Hardscape

After much sawing and hacking, I've narrowed down my hardscape choices. The irony is that I ended up not using the wood I spent the better part of an afternoon hacking away at. :rolleyes: It was just too big. I have several smaller pieces, which I may still hack up.

IMG_2849.jpg


Different angle for one piece
IMG_2850.jpg


With the knots and holes, I think they'll be great for attaching things to. The large piece will probably be the focal point wood and will play off the HC/HM street. It will probably end up being an anubia petite nana street which will end on the high point of the wood 2/3 into the tank, forming a focal point cluster with petite nana, a red plant, and possibly a taller grass specimen plant. Hard to picture. I can see it, but it is hard to explain.

The two smaller pieces, which may be further cut up into smaller pieces will possibly have pelia attached to them and be placed towards the front of the tank to form little mounds. Which will contrast very well, I think, with P. helferi. I don't know, though, Pelia is so darned messy. Christmas moss might work too. The wood will have something on it and that something will contrast well with P. helferi. The little "woodland" corner of the Dutch will be rounded out, I think, with some toadstool-like Hydrocotyle verticillata. It will be an attractive little corner that will play off the focal point and lead the eye to it. H. verticillata has some street potential as well, and it may be explored for this purpose. I just have to make sure I can purchase it here. Another possibility, though not as cute, Marsilea hirsuta or minima. Those, I can easily find in the US, but they will not make as pretty a picture.

Waiting, waiting, I've been waiting... :crazy:

I'm playing the waiting game on this tank. I'm waiting on the following, which is currently being shipped.

TPN+
Two Rhinox 1000 diffusers
Clear CO2 tubing
Suction cups
Check valves
Dropchecker
Jewelry scale
Willow Moss
Christmas Moss

Once these items arrive, I can get started and order the rest of the plants, as that process will take very little time. The fish, though extremely important to this setup, will not be added until the tank has been planted and the tank has settled somewhat into a routine. I will be playing with some fragile species and I will not compromise their health. Which leads me too...

Which Fishies?

Remember this?

Happy Dutch Principle #3 -
Fish play a very important part in this style as well. The bottom, middle, and top zones of a tank should be filled with fish to make each area interesting to the viewer. All fish species should be different in shape, color, and size, but the least number of species possible should be used to fill all niches in the tank (so no blue rams in a tank with kribensis, or silver hatchetfish with marbled hatchetfish, etc). Schools must be as large as possible.

Well, I think I've narrowed it down somewhat. All images were taken from a yahoo search and are only for illustration, not reproduction.

Upper strata: Heterandria formosa; a cute little livebearer

heterandriaformosa.jpg


Middle strata: Boraras brigittae; one of my favorite microrasboras and the "spot of color" in this tank.

9130-boraras-brigittae-microrasbora.jpg


Lower strata: Erethistes jerdoni (formaly Hara jerdoni)

hara1Thumb.jpg


This is the trickiest fish. It doesn't like a lot of nitrate supposedly, so it is a matter of doing a dance between the nitrate needs of the plants and this fish's needs. The challenge of the group. Another option is Corydoras habrosus, but I thought E. jerdoni was too cool. All three can be acquired from one trusted source, so that makes me happy. :) If I have surplus, they can easily find a home in my other peaceful tanks.

All three would do well in densly planted tanks with either a covered substrate or a sand substrate with wood as the decoration and lots of plants to hide in. Kind of what an old-fashioned Dutch scape looks like. Their range of water conditions also conform well to a planted aquarium with CO2 injection. Even the livebearer, which was neat. All of them are also extremely small fish and relatively peaceful, which is a huge plus. This isn't a final list, though, a great top three, but if something comes up and they won't do well, they won't go in.

As always, thanks for looking, and comments are always welcome. :thumbup:

llj
 

mattyc

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Re: lljdma06's New Nano Dutch! Moss musings and Fish choices

Make this tank faster i cant wait to see it :clap: , i like your fish choices they should look realy nice Boraras brigittae this one more than the others with the green background of the plants!!

Matt
 

lljdma06

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Re: lljdma06's New Nano Dutch! Moss musings and Fish choices

Tomorrow will be time to Play :clap:

Some packages came for me in the mail today. I received the following...

From Aquatic Magic
- 1 chameleon drop checker
- 2 Rhinox 1000 Pollen diffusers
- 3 gang valves
- 3 sets of CO2 tubing
- Suction cups

From AquaEssentials
- 500ml of TPN+

From eBay
- Digital pocket jewelry scale (for measureing dry ferts and bicarbonate for 4dkh solution)

Everything arrived much faster than expected and in good shape. I am very satisfied. I only have to wait on the moss which just shipped out yesterday, and I have to order some stemplants for the scape.

Found something in my Yard

It looks like my own front yard is supplying me with a plant for my scape.

IMG_2864-1.jpg


IMG_2867.jpg


Some Hydrocotyle verticillata. I have the Toadstools for my tank! :D I gushed about it in the Plants section, but I thought I'd post it here too. I harvested what I could and it is in a small fountain I have in my front garden. I really thought I was going to have to mailorder that.

I'm working on a plant list right now for the stems and other little plants. I'll post the list tomorrow.

llj :)
 

Mortis

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Re: lljdma06's New Nano Dutch! Moss musings and Fish choices

I had an idea for the moss wall. Since it has so many holes in it already, instead of tying he moss like you would to rocks as you mentioned earlier you could just poke a few strands into it. This way you would have most of the strand hanging on the front which would grow downwards and cover the plastic.
 

lljdma06

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Re: lljdma06's New Nano Dutch! Equip. arrived & Plants ordered!

Mortis said:
I had an idea for the moss wall. Since it has so many holes in it already, instead of tying he moss like you would to rocks as you mentioned earlier you could just poke a few strands into it. This way you would have most of the strand hanging on the front which would grow downwards and cover the plastic.

Thank you for the thought. Actually, all of the moss will be hanging from the front, as I will be lying the moss on the rough side while I weave fishing line through the many holes. It's kind of like cross-stitching but not.

It will all be clear when the moss arrives.

PS: I ordered the plants. Nothing too fancy. Some harder species, but also some easier ones just in case the hards ones say "no way I'm growing in that!". They didn't have Petite nana at Aquabotonic, so I ordered some Marsilea minuta and will be digging through my anubia piles from other tanks to find smaller plants. I have two petite nana already. Complete plant list below. Plants in bold are probably going in the tank. I ordered more than I needed incase I wanted to fill out the other tanks too. Most species will do alright in my 10g and 20g.

Vallisneria nana - easy, primarily for my 20g, but I may use 1-2 plants for a very strong accent
Hemianthus callitrichoides - not too bad
Hemianthus Micranthemoides - easy
African Bolbitis fern - easy - for my 20g, hey I get a discount
Myriophyllum tuberculatum - harder
Didiplis diandra - with CO2 and ferts, probably not too bad
Rotala nanjenshan - Never tried, sounded great on paper.
Bacopa caroliniana - Easy as pie, probably for my 20g again, but I may use a few stems
Rotala indica - Easy as pie
Red Nesaea - Tough. Couldn't find R. macrandra and this looked kind of similar, so I figured, get one, what the hey? I read through a bunch of requirements. There isn't really anything that I'm not providing for this plant.
Marselia minuta - Easy
Subwassertang - Messy, but easy
Dwarf Hairgrass - Never tried
Weeping Moss
Hydrocotyle verticillata
Anubia petite nana - it depends, the Marsilea may take over. I only ordered one portion though.
Maybe some small crypts from my 20g. I couldn't find the right kind.

I couldn't find some of what I wanted, no big deal. If I find something I like better later, I'll swap out one for the other and offer clippings. I wanted R. macrandra, but Aquabotonic didn't have it and while Aquariumplants.com did, that website didn't have other things that I did want, so I spent quite a bit of time looking for substitute plants. I did PM someone at APC for some fissidens and more marsilea. Hopefully I'll get that. I'm a bit eBayed out actually. I'm really tired, but I ate super late tonight and I can't sleep when I'm full.
 

AdAndrews

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Re: lljdma06's New Nano Dutch! Moss musings and Fish choices

Brilliant write up llj, cant wait to see it planted- a bit like my own nano
:clap:
Adam
 

TBRO

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Re: lljdma06's New Nano Dutch! Moss musings and Fish choices

Wow - that is some seriously extensive planning. Wish I had that kind of patience. Love your outdoor raised plants ! I have amazon frogbit in our bird-bath. I have the same rasboras there really cute but kind of shy, I hear their more confident in smaller tanks. Looking forward to seeing the finished scape - Tom
 

lljdma06

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Re: lljdma06's New Nano Dutch! Moss musings and Fish choices

aaronnorth said:
are making your own TPN+?

Eventually, since I have the jewelry scale, yes. Right now, with school on the way, I wanted to make sure I had enough TPN+ to see me through the first few months of the tank incase I was too busy to make my own. I also get to keep the flashy bottle.

TBRO said:
Wow - that is some seriously extensive planning. Wish I had that kind of patience. Love your outdoor raised plants ! I have amazon frogbit in our bird-bath. I have the same rasboras there really cute but kind of shy, I hear their more confident in smaller tanks. Looking forward to seeing the finished scape - Tom

Really, the outdoor plants only work because the climate in Miami, FL is essentially sub-tropical year round. It is through no skill on my part. We have a wet season and a dry season, but it rarely gets below freezing, and when it does, it is only for like a day. It gives me a place to put my cuttings though, while I wait for people to take them off my hands.

AdAndrews said:
Brilliant write up llj, cant wait to see it planted- a bit like my own nano
:clap:
Adam

Thank you, Adam. I am this anal normally, so the write up is only an extension of this. :lol:

I also believe in really knowing the habits of what you keep. The problem is that I have recently been reading a lot about how CO2 is a more important factor with regard to the more difficult plants than light. Much of the older literature has not caught up with this concept, so researching the plants have been difficult as they tend to list light requirements first and are then vague about CO2, and the light requirements are often sky-high for the more challenging plants. Especially with regard to the Nesea and Myriophylum. SuperColey1's grown R. Macrandra in less that 1WPG, but he has CO2 injection, which lends credence to the concept I've been reading about. I am conducting a bit of an experiment with the Nesea and the Myrio as I don't think this nano has very much light, despite the 3WPG number. But I will be providing good CO2 and good ferts. If they do well, then this also lends support to that concept. For me, those are the toughest, everything else on that list is going to be much easier, as I have grown most of the species without the benefit of CO2 injection or ferts in moderate light levels. If I fail, there is always Alternantera reineckii! :lol:

llj
 

AdAndrews

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Re: lljdma06's New Nano Dutch! Moss musings and Fish choices

lljdma06 said:
Thank you, Adam. I am this anal normally, so the write up is only an extension of this. :lol:

I also believe in really knowing the habits of what you keep. The problem is that I have recently been reading a lot about how CO2 is a more important factor with regard to the more difficult plants than light. Much of the older literature has not caught up with this concept, so researching the plants have been difficult as they tend to list light requirements first and are then vague about CO2, and the light requirements are often sky-high for the more challenging plants. Especially with regard to the Nesea and Myriophylum. SuperColey1's grown R. Macrandra in less that 1WPG, but he has CO2 injection, which lends credence to the concept I've been reading about. I am conducting a bit of an experiment with the Nesea and the Myrio as I don't think this nano has very much light, despite the 3WPG number. But I will be providing good CO2 and good ferts. If they do well, then this also lends support to that concept. For me, those are the toughest, everything else on that list is going to be much easier, as I have grown most of the species without the benefit of CO2 injection or ferts in moderate light levels. If I fail, there is always Alternantera reineckii! :lol:

llj

lol, try try and try again i say!
good luck
Adam
 

John Starkey

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Re: lljdma06's New Nano Dutch! Plants ordered, Equip arrived!

Hi ilj,
brilliant journal as usual,really looking forward to the planting,
regards john.
 

lljdma06

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Re: lljdma06's New Nano Dutch! A Surprise! It's setup!

john starkey said:
Hi ilj,
brilliant journal as usual,really looking forward to the planting,
regards john.

Well, I have a little something for you then at the end of this very long post. :) But first...

The New Equipment

As I said before, the new equipment arrived, yesterday, and today I had the opportunity to take it all out of their boxes and inspect them. Here are a few photos.

From Aquaticmagic
IMG_2883.jpg


The Rhinox 1000 Pollen diffuser
IMG_2893.jpg


The Chameleon drop checker
IMG_2895.jpg


The TPN+ from AquaEssentials and the Digital jewelry scale from eBay
IMG_2899.jpg


Everything looks to be in nice shape (no cracks, etc.)

A little change :)

I remembered this piece of old black wood from my 10g. It had nothing attached to it over there, so I easily removed it and am using it for this scape. I like the look of the black wood, so this replaces the largest of the previous piece.

IMG_2906.jpg


I'm still keeping the little pieces.

John Starkey's little Surprise: Initial Plantings :D

I decided with most of the equipment already here and some plants available to me, I decided to begin setup. This also allows me to determine how the CO2 will work and I can fiddle with things and use the drop checker to measure CO2 levels throughout the tank before I begin the main planting. A very important thing to do, in my humble opinion.

Here is the tank with just squeezed mulm from my filter media. It wasn't much.

IMG_2912.jpg


After that, I added a mixture of laterite, coarse sand, and small-grain gravel. This layer is not especially thick, about 1/2-2/3 inch deep. You can see my new substrate spreader. I really like the new aquascaping tools, they were very useful.

IMG_2916.jpg


I managed to grab quite a bit of petite nana from my outdoor tub. I found one with larger leaves and oriented it towards the back, while the smaller anubias are more towards the front. I trimmed the leaves, the roots, and separated individual rhizomes. I then attached them to the old black wood with the new fishing line. It took me a little bit to get the hang of it, but it ended up being very good to work with and the anubias are very secure. I finished the substrate with a fine white sand cap.

IMG_2917.jpg


And a closeup of the anubias. You can just see the fishing line, but this is a macro shot. If you just glance at the tank, you can't see the line. Very nice.

IMG_2932.jpg


Here are some photos of the tank after this initial planting. Only the anubia wood is in the "final" position, the other pieces are there for an idea and to make sure it is submerged. They still need to be clean a little more and covered with what they need to be covered with (moss or subwassertag). The hydrocotyle will probably be replanted once the wood has been repositioned and the other plants are placed. If I have extra weeping moss, I'll make sure I use it. I like the basic idea and can kind of picture the final result. Might need some mild tweaking, but I can't do anything until everything comes in.

IMG_2925.jpg


Hydrocotyle shots. This plant is adorable. I selected the smallest, straightest stems and separated them so they could be individually planted with the rest going into my outdoor tub. It's like little umbrellas. Moss will probably be the best constrast plant but I'll see how the subwassertang looks too.

IMG_2928.jpg


IMG_2929.jpg


Another tank shot. Again, the scaping isn't done yet. Things may still be moved around quite a bit. The great thing is that the wood is at the surface, so it's just a matter of repositioning. It also looks like I'll be getting some Fissidens fontalis from a member at APC. I have no idea what I'll do with that, but depending on how much I get, it can be fantastic for draping on the black wood.

IMG_2933.jpg


I am so pleased that this will potentially be done by the end of next week. This took so much planning and I think I've coordinated it well.

Finally, I hooked up the Rhinox to test the CO2 diffuser. It's working, big sigh of relief. Lots of little teeny, tiny bubbles and the way I've positioned the current, I can see bubbles flowing to where I plan on putting the HC and the Nesea. I don't have pictures yet of that. I'll install the drop checker and start measureing CO2 tomorrow. The photo period right now is at 4 hours. I don't have it densly planted yet, and it's only two plants. Once it's planted, I'll up it to six for the first few weeks.

As always, thank you so much for looking at this thread and your comments and suggestions are greatly appreciated.

llj
 
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