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London Riots

Kid's make mistakes, but sometimes they make some big ones, this was one of those times.

Mine knows they will get a beating and be forced to work in prison like conditions if ever caught.
And I know how to catch and look for evidence.

I make sure it's a much easier path to do the right thing.

Bad parents, that's who you can blame a lot of it on. I sort of agree with child labor, if they are not in school, they best be doing homework, chores, or after school job, or working for me, or after school sports. I want them 110% busy and tired........all the time.

That's a parent's job.

If they have time to hang out like these thugs.....that is the parent's fault.

I believe in child labor, they got time to get in this much trouble, they got time to work. Chain gang them and make them repair and fix everything for the next year.
 
It is the whole political system's fault. Through political correctness, the nanny state, human rights and the sue/blame culture we now cannot do anything for ourselves, we now cannot be trusted to think, we cannot say what we think because it may offend someone. We cannot suggest some of society are bad parents because we are not in a thinktank that is the only place that 'really knows' what the problem is.

Now you sound like some of the people in the USA :oops:

I think we can easily blame the parents of these kids and rightly so. This is about you and the kids, not what everyone else is doing. "Just because everyone else is out rioting, does not mean you can also mister!"

Put them to work and keep them busy. Hard to get in trouble then.
The Rich have long done this to the Poor.

Works too.

Also works if you are a parent and have bratty kid.

But the end result is better in the family, vs the Rich vs Poor adults.
 
What's the cause of riots? It could be poverty, hopelessness, inequality, racial bias, lack of education, ignorance of the current situation.
 
Crispino Ramos said:
What's the cause of riots? It could be poverty, hopelessness, inequality, racial bias, lack of education, ignorance of the current situation.
People who want a new 42" TV and pair of designer trainers that thier dole (welfare) money won't stretch to, who also turn down jobs that are less that £x per hour in favour of watching trashy daytime TV drinking beer, while complaining foreigners (ie legal immigrants with a good work ethic who will accept the going rate of less that £x per hour) take all of the jobs.

Free market economy principles of you skive off at school, have no skills and therefore you will only ever get a low paid job seem to elude them. They were probably too busy making trouble when they taught that in the knowledge the teacher couldn't do anything about them, and their parents wouldn't cake about them getting a bad report card.

I lived in fear or a bad school report, my parents would have killed me!
 
If must be said, the seismic shift to the right in this country is putting East Anglia in serious danger of ending up below sea level...
 
Totally Agree with what Andy has said.
I simply cannot believe the way in which some parents are bringing up their children with such attitudes.
If we are out with the little one. And I see/hear a child of nursery age swearing/misbehaving - I Tell my son, you do not act like that as those children have no respect. And they have not been taught it by their parents. If you were to ever do that your mother would give you a right beating, like we were if we misbehaved or disrespected someone. When saying this if the child's parents hear me - I do not blink an eye as they have bought it on themselves and they usually look sheepishly away.
Today's youth have a We want it now attitude. And this is something My child will never have. If we can afford it we will get it. If not then NO, He cannot have it.

I myself have been in/out of work for the last 15 years due to my numerous health issues. I have never liked claiming from the Government, but if they give the money. I will take it, as it helps keep us Afloat. I am constantly told by my Disability Personal Advisor that I am Extremely Lucky to come from such a good family who has always supported me, and are always there for me.
My Mother is the only person in our household that is working and she is nearly 70. And she is still working Full Time 40hrs a week. Dad had to retire because his health was bad last year after another heart attack and having Bells Palsy(now Fully Recovered from).
I respect my Mother alot as she is the heart of our family and Very Strong Moral values. If we spoke out of line, it was the 1st thing she had to hand we would get belted with. Same for misbehaving, She signed a Waiver for my Schools for allowing to be Caned. I wish they would bring this back, as it put the fear into you. Too not Misbehave. My convent school, Then Primary School would make all those to be caned wait for Friday Mass. And then be caned infront of everyone.
Having a letter come home from the school was a terrifying experience. I was Head Boy at both my Primary Schools and My Parents were very Proud of that fact.


My Mother Agrees that The Power that has been taken away from Authority Figures should be given back. So that Children/Teenagers Learn to respect them as they once did.
 
skeletonw00t said:
It's happened because the looney-left-wing-liberal attitudes of the last 13 years have caught up with us.

The labour government perpetuating myths like a single parent household is just as good for kids as two parents. The idea that its everyones god given right to go to university. Te idea that everyone is going to bw paid 35k plus salaries (see the rediculous public sector positions available these days).

Labour have systematically destroyed the work ethic in the so called "working class" creating an underclass who don't want or need to work as its of no benefit to them.

I disagree. I am most definately a tory voter. always will be. My ethic is if you look after the rich (i.e. the business man/woman) then they look after the poor. i.e. they create jobs and pay people. If the state tries to look after the poor instead then it penalises those businessmen/women and they either don't create those jobs or create them somewhere else.

So whilst socialist parties may have a nice idealogical belief, in practice it actually hurts those it intends to help.

I don not accept however that this is 13 years of labour's fault. Labour have played along with it but this has been increasing ever since the mid eighties/early 90s. The whole Europe wide human rights ethic. The gradual acceptance of the america 'sue' culture. The super boom of the health and safety executive.

So over the past 30 or so years the state has gradually taken away the responsibility of everyone and taken it upon government and quangos to assume the responsibility by telling us what we can and can't do and letting judges give people compensation for tripping over paving slabs whilst not looking where they are going.

So whilst I would love to blame Blair and Brown, I can't. Its been a slide that has taken place over 3 decdes and 5 prime ministers :(

I agree Gill. When I was in first school I received the cane just weeks before it was outlawed. I then got punished by my parents for doing something that warranted a caning.

When I was at Primary school I received the slipper (a plimsole over the palm of the hand - burned for hours) once when I did nothing wrong. That was outlawed very soon after.

I wouldn't say that it made me an angel otherwise I would have stopped after the caning however it taught me that if I was going to do something wrong I'd better be prepared for the consequences.

Talk in class and you would get hit by a flying chalkboard rubber. That hurt and you listened from then on.

What happens now? pupil talks, the teacher requests silence. The teacher gets hit by a flying school desk. Then we are back onto the sue/blame compensation ethic :)

You could add the other misnomer of teach kids sex education at an early age and that will help them understand about safe sex and make more informed choices. Was supposed to reduce the amount of teenage pregnancy. What was the result? Teach them about it. Remove the taboo. Record numbers of teenage pregnancys and an ever reducing record low age.

Please forgive any typos. My PC for some reason is struggling to keep up with my ranting :)

Andy
 
The only reason why the Rich hire more people is because demand goes up, not because they get Government freebies, kickbacks, legalized "Bribes", this is not about politics, this business and economics. Taking care of the rich just means they end up with more money is all, not help out more poor people. Trickle down economics is a failure. I own a business and run several different sides/aspects to it.

Many of my client's are extremely wealthy. My work does not change, nor do they hire more/less unless demand pick's up for their goods/services.

I have strong conservative and liberal values. I am not one dimensional. But "help the rich so they will help the poor" is not logical nor is it factual in economics or business.

A favorite: "Have you ever been hired by a poor man?" Answer: yes, I work basically for my customers, many of which are less well to do than myself. By pooling many poorer folks together, a Grocery store owner can make millions while being much richer than those that are supporting his profits. A simple mind for falls for such one dimensional non critical thinking talking points. But then again, someone has to do the gardening, janitorial work, farm work besides me, I do not like those jobs :twisted:

These arguments and talk points are developed to fool folks, the reality it is all about the $$$, pooling the taxes from the middle classes and poor, sale tax etc.....and to help the Rich even more. It's a scam. I paid 35% Tax, now I pay 22% even though I make 6X as much. I know the Game.

It's not about right or wrong, it's just political marketing :idea:

Still, I agree than too much nanny state approach is deterimental, folks have to come to terms and learn to work and make their way on their own, it's not an easy road. Africa is hugely dependent on hand outs. Many do not think till the next day, just what they can get today only. Like a lazy teenager, they will not work till they are forced too. The guy not paying you rent will not pay till the police evict him(done this 4X!, PITA) and then you still have to go after their employer wages. If the nanny state is working for them, then great! Why change? They have no motivation to do so.

But as far as these kids go, it's mostly about parents, a few parents turned their kids in, bully for them!
I would, but I'd beat them first. "Oh that broken arm? Must of happen in the riot!"

BTW, I was homeless for a few months, if I can do it, and get multiple degrees etc.....anyone can.
I was that slacker teenager myself at one point.
 
It's disgusting, people my age and younger justifying all of it, they say they are 'getting payback' from companies not giving them jobs. YOU HAVE TO WORK HARD AND EARN A JOB, you are not just given it.
 
Ian. Lol. At last I have video evidence. That isn't anything to do with riots. Been wondering who knocks my bin over every week. :)


plantbrain said:
The only reason why the Rich hire more people is because demand goes up, not because they get Government freebies, kickbacks, legalized "Bribes", this is not about politics, this business and economics. Taking care of the rich just means they end up with more money is all, not help out more poor people. Trickle down economics is a failure. I own a business and run several different sides/aspects to it.

Its a bit different over here Tom.

The UK has virtually none of its own manufacturing left. Not for serious investment. All we have now are banks and retail.

Most of our economy relies on foreign investment. Over the past 2-3 decades we have increasingly had to encourage the Japanese, Germans no doubt soon to be Indian and Chinese et al to choose Britain as the place to setup manufacturing. We cannot do that if we then penalise them. they just choose other countries where they are not penalised and therefore we don't get the jobs.

Some will blame Thatcher but in reality it was our own people's demands that pushed the labour cost too high and also our own companies not investing in upgraded manufacturing processes/machinery/facilities. We got behind and then couldn't match the other emerging countries on cost or quality.

This lack of investment can be seen both ways. either as the rich owners pocketing too much or not being able to invest due to the labour cost. either way that is a side issue.

So in essence we have to beg the rich from other countries to come here and setup business or we have nothing but retail and finance left. Even the British manufacturing that we do have left (Dyson etc.) are threatening moving out of the UK. Many (I would suggest most) already source everything from outside of the UK and plain and simple build the finished product in the UK.

Always blamed on Thatcher but in truth should be blamed on the common man, people like me and every other joe bloggs that works that demanded ever improving wages and conditions.

I just watched a 'youth question time special' on the Riots. I heard some say exactly what I have said above. More the adult panel than the youths. Most of the youths <24s have grown up thinking this lax level of discipline and rights of young people are the standard and they all spouted the same blarb of 'no prospects, low expectancy etc.'

I heard one suggest that under our current government people are having to work more hours for less money than before. before what? a couple of years ago? Turn back the clock 20 years people and then complain about the wage for the hours put in. We have it easy these days.

Its quite wierd really. I was 30 when my first child was born 6 years ago and already was worried about what kind of world he would grow up in. My wife was 23 and she was on the lines of these kids even though she is from Portugal. To her it was £20 Puma trainers for a 1 year old and designer cots/pushchairs. It amazes me. The argument was 'what is wrong with wanting my son to have nice shoes and look good'. I think it is an age thing. I just caught the last remnants of proper discipline before I got to the teenage years.

My answer was and still is 'because there is more to life than worrying about image. Forget what the idiot over the street thinks.

I buy all my kids clothes off ebay in bundles. £1-£2 an item. I buy those 'flashy' clothes that are only 6 months - 1 year old from those idiots and I'm not ashamed to dress my kids second hand. It appeases the wife because they have the stupid labels whilst not wasting money that could be better spent on buying good fresh food and not a freezer full from Iceland.

I live on what people in Lincoln consider one of the worst streets in Lincoln . Being brought up in a quite desirable area of Lincoln myself I too thought the same before I moved here. Its not actually bad at all but reputations from many moons ago linger on in the mids of those who have never been here.

Its actually quiet, sociable and friendly. Of course there is the odd druggie house here or drunkard who lives on his own yet bangs on the door every sunday for someone to let him in when he forgets his keys (there's no-one in there....you live alone you fool) but it is a council estate so I guess that is to be expected.

A lot of families on this street live in electrical luxury but in undecorated houses. They do not work, not the mother, the father (if there is one), not the 4 or 5 kids. They get taxis everywhere they go sometimes several times a day. they do not use buses as they have to walk 4 minutes up the road for the bus and then wait for anything up to 15 minutes for the next bus. They push their own Tesco trolley to Tesco and fill it up and bring it back home leaving it in the front garden. their front gardens and very generously sized back gardens (that would make most home owners very jealous) are left to ruin for most of the year apart from the yearly strimming where the communal strimmer is lent from house to house. They stand at their front doors smoking their packs of 20 or if they are budgeting their roll ups both of which will be contraband as this is big business on the council estates. They let their 5 and 6 year olds play on the street of their own freewill. These 5 or 6 year olds leave the house when they want to, play when they want to and their parents let them.

Still its a quiet life up here apart from the damn ice cream van which comes on the hour every hour from 9 in the morning until 9 at night rain or shine, sumer or winter.....there is always a queue!!!!

They take out £500 loans at unemployed 50% interest rates because their kids party has to live up to everyone else's. Has to have a hired bouncy castle, every other kid has to see that the birthday 5 year old gets a Nintendo DS, Party bags to be taken home have to be uber flashy and so the merry go round goes on.

Me. My kids parties consist of pass the parcel, musical chairs etc. there are no party bags. The kids get to take a piece of cake home and any prize they won (book or pack of pencils etc.) All the kids enjoy themselves, they all go home happy. I couldn't care less if the parents think that I am tight. Its about the kids not impressing the parents.

The essence of the story? If the mentality is that designer labels, electricals, fags, booze and several ice creams a day are must haves, that they are not lifestyle choices then of course they are all going to feel the pinch.

The rest of us. We live within our means (maybe take credit within our means) but we choose to eat better and live better for ourselves and not so that it looks good to the person next door. Its not 'keeping up with the Jones' anymore. Everybody IS the Jones' there's noone to keep up with because everybody thinks its the norm.

While that mentality of luxuries being considered necesseties and maintaining an image for others continues, then all the kids grow up thinking the same and things get worse.

Doesn't excuse 'latching' onto a reason created by some politicians or political thinktanks falsely use to 'sympathise' with their 'plight'. Put a 'reason' out there and they all feel vindicated in their thinking they are hard done by.

Andy
 
Our father, who art in prison, my mum knows not his name, thy Riots come, read it in the sun, in Birmingham, as it is in London, give us this day our Welfare bread & forgive us our looting, as we're happy to loot those who defend stuff against us, lead us not into employment but deliver us free housing, for thine is the tellys, the Burberry & the Bacardi, forever and ever...Innit !!!!
 
Great post Andy! Although I do not favor the brands and I try to push that to the kids, so that they would not have to worry about what others do or buy, the kids are faced with a different culture at school.

I am Portuguese and my wife is south African, Elsies River. If you are from cape town you would know how uncool the hood is. :) I'm the flashy one, I understand your wife, :) , but I also know that money is bette spent on food and on education, everything else is irrelevant.

The kids that were rampaging through town were missing moral values, and the fault lies at home.

Where I come from you do not work you do not eat, and go live under the bridge, but here sometimes is pays to stay at home. I know people that have come here just to sponge the government. That is the issue. The government takes away all benefits, everything, gives just decent pension to old people and for sure these yobs and their parents will go either back to work, school or starve.

You may say that removing their help will make it worse, but spend the money saved on police, and support them, and you'll see that they would be under manners.




---
- .
 
I'm the flashy one, I understand your wife,

Lol. Ia m flashier Luis. I have all the labels, Lacoste, Ralph, Valentino, DKNY, Burberry etc but I bought all that when I was working, when I was single, when I lived at home. They are still in the wardrobe. Some ten (or more) years old. they are gradually being replaced as they wear out with Tesco or ebay clothing :)

None of these labels were bought before I was working. My mum and Dad would not put up with any demands like that. £1 a week pocket money meant 3 weeks money for a cinema ticket or 5 weeks for a vinyl album. For that £1 a week I had to walk the dog, do washing up, keep the bedroom tidy etc. Any chores missed and the £1 reduced :)

I celebrated turning 15......pocket money went up to £2 so I could buy a new album every 2.5 weeks and I love music.

When I moved out of the parents home (aged 29....oops) the priorities changed. when I had my first child the priorities changed further. When I lost my job they changed even further etc. Its about making the best of and not carrying on regardless and to hell with the consequence.

A person who makes the best out of what they do have will always be happier than the one who moans about what they don't have.

The person who makes the best out of what they have is even more satisfied as things get better. The person who moans about what they don't have is never happy because when they get what they didn't have they now want the next thing they don't have.

The positive thinker versus the negative thinker.

At the age of 17 and whilst all the factory workers were earning £180 or so a week I got a job as a trainee accountant at a big engineering company.......The wage?.....£70 a week. I was struggling to imagine how to spend this amount of money. Was overjoyed at the wage and the opportunity. This was only just more than jobseekers (dole) at the time.

If any of these youths were offered that sort of chance at say.....£150 training wage for the first year what would their reaction be? Probably I was getting £60 a week pocket money before I turned 16 and I'm now getting more than £120 plus my council flat rent and C Tax paid for!!!! Obviously going to be a no :)

Remember also at this time there was something called the YTS (youth training scheme) where kids could get experience at a job and be paid £35 a week. Imagine trying to re-implement that now!!! Remove the dole for all below 18 and you have to work for say £70. lol. Let the riots begin!!!!

The government takes away all benefits, everything, gives just decent pension to old people and for sure these yobs and their parents will go either back to work, school or starve.

You may say that removing their help will make it worse, but spend the money saved on police, and support them, and you'll see that they would be under manners.

They are going to have to have a discussion about whether to debate it!!! the petition has reached the required number of signees that they have to properly discuss the subject :)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-14474429

http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitio ... state=open

Andy
 
This is the government's statement on the petition above:

Prisoners convicted of a criminal offence and detained in prison are not entitled to social security benefits. That means that anyone who is eligible for social security benefits and who is caught, convicted and imprisoned for any offence committed during the recent disorder that has disrupted London and other UK cities will be disqualified from receiving social security payments. The Department for Work and Pensions is also looking at whether further sanctions can be imposed on the benefit entitlements of individuals who receive non custodial sentences. In addition the Department is considering increasing the level of fines which can be deducted from benefit entitlement.

In relation to social housing, it is already a ground for eviction if a tenant or a member of their family is involved in anti-social behaviour or criminal activity in their local neighbourhood. Ministers have encouraged social landlords to use these powers, and a number of local authorities have pledged to do so. The Department for Communities and Local Government is consulting on proposals to allow such evictions to take place where the criminal activity takes place outside the vicinity of the local neighbourhood


They've already evicted one in wandsworth!!! Single mum apparently who's kid was involved.

Andy
 
I'm the flashy one, I understand your wife

I am a Bargain Hunter and Thrifty. Always looking to save money wherever I can. This extends to everything i do and Now Even my Fish keeping.
I never buy clothes unless they are on sale and at least over 50% Off. I don't Buy Labels, apart from a few nice items for Special occasions/weddings/parties. And even then I hunt for a Bargain on the labels.
When we were younger My Parents did buy us a few label items, and usually they were @ the Wholesale price(as they were in Clothing Retail). My brothers now buy labels and spend so much on clothing.
For my Son we buy his clothes Only during the sales, as What is the point of buying at full price when it will be reduced in a few weeks time. And Also online/ebay.
For Designer Labels I also Buy Alot online and Love Ebay, as i can find Used clothing at a fraction of the retail price. And Sometimes Shops Like Littlewoods ebay Clearance Sell at over 85%. And then I buy a few items, I would never normally buy in town. I love Cotton Traders clothing but the retail prices are High, so love finding bargains on ebay/online.


When it come to Electrical items, nothing changes. Hunt for the best price and I use Hot Deals Uk alot for checking what is on Offer.
When we are out or go shopping I have videos of My Sons favourite Progs on my Phone for him to watch. Now as he is getting Older he watches me when I use my phone, and has learnt how to use my BB. Not wanting him to ruin it, I have been bidding for a few weeks on an MP4 player on ebay. And finally won an all-in-one 16GB for under a tenner. I was not about to pay Retail price for something he will eventually break or lose. He loves the Toy Story Films and shorts, so they are all on there. And I sit with him on Youtube and he tells me which Videos he wants me to DL for Him. ATM he is still liking PogoMusic's Remixes and Mike tompkinsons Acapella Videos.
 
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