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Losing battle with tank

dw1305

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nr Bath
Hi all,
Can’t stress this one enough… If you’re running a low tech tank, surface agitation is your friend. It ensures a reliable, continual and consistent supply of dissolved gases. More rot - provides the required oxygen. Fish dies - provides the required oxygen to break it down. Co2 - keeps it available for plant tissues to uptake. If it’s not needed - maintains equilibrium anyway.
That one, <"dissolved oxygen"> is always your friend.
My tank volume is 180l
<"Perfect">.
I should probably put in the calculation for that.
  • The tank is a nominal 70 litres and
  • I want 10 ppm N
  • Solufeed 2 : 1 : 4 is 15% nitrogen (N).
  • There are 1000 mg in a gram, so 1 gram of Solufeed contains 0.15g or 150 mg N, "mg / L" and "ppm" are equivalents.
  • 150 / 70 = 2.14 ppm N in 70 litres
  • 10 / 2.14 = 4.667. I need to add 4.67g Solufeed 2 : 1: 4 to give 10 ppm N in 70 litres of water, and then to check
  • Check = 4.667 * 150 = 700, 700 mg is the total mg N added and 700 / 70 = 10 mg / L (ppm).
I'll use nitrate (NO3-) again as my target nutrient, but I'll go for 10 ppm NO3-, rather than 10 ppm N (~44 ppm NO3-). So the only differences are tank volume and nutrient dosing level. I still assume that all the nitrogen is as NO3.
  • The tank is a nominal 180 litres and
  • I want 10 ppm NO3
  • Solufeed 2 : 1 : 4 is 15% nitrogen (N).
  • There are 1000 mg in a gram, so 1 gram of Solufeed contains 0.15g or 150 mg N, "mg / L" and "ppm" are equivalents.
  • 150 / 180 = 0.83 ppm N in 180 litres. To convert from N to NO3 we multiply by 4.43.
  • 0.83 x 4.43 = 3.69, so 1 gram of Solufeed 2 : 1 : 4 supplies 3.69 ppm NO3
  • 3.69 * 2.71 = 10 ppm
  • You need to add 2.7g of Solufeed 2 : 1 : 4 to 180 litres to give 10 ppm NO3.
cheers Darrel
 

kellyboy47

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9 Mar 2008
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Margate
Hi all,

That one, <"dissolved oxygen"> is always your friend.

<"Perfect">.

I'll use nitrate (NO3-) again as my target nutrient, but I'll go for 10 ppm NO3-, rather than 10 ppm N (~44 ppm NO3-). So the only differences are tank volume and nutrient dosing level. I still assume that all the nitrogen is as NO3.
  • The tank is a nominal 180 litres and
  • I want 10 ppm NO3
  • Solufeed 2 : 1 : 4 is 15% nitrogen (N).
  • There are 1000 mg in a gram, so 1 gram of Solufeed contains 0.15g or 150 mg N, "mg / L" and "ppm" are equivalents.
  • 150 / 180 = 0.83 ppm N in 180 litres. To convert from N to NO3 we multiply by 4.43.
  • 0.83 x 4.43 = 3.69, so 1 gram of Solufeed 2 : 1 : 4 supplies 3.69 ppm NO3
  • 3.69 * 2.71 = 10 ppm
  • You need to add 2.7g of Solufeed 2 : 1 : 4 to 180 litres to give 10 ppm NO3.
cheers Darrel
Hi Darrel

Are we talking about this one and is this both Macro / Micro combined. Is this a daily dose that youve very kindly calculated ?
 

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kellyboy47

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13.5 hours of light requires a healthy setup under those lights. Right now it will be exacerbating the cyano problem, as it is obviously photosynthetic. Longer blackouts are usually ineffective as you weaken plants in that time. If that system is already in detriment, the additional decay from failing plant matter will add to the problem. You switch lights back on, Cyanobacteria divide faster than plants recover. Plus they have everything they need
Hi Geoffrey....Is this too much lighting then and what would you suggest changing with my current lighting period to ?

Also, if I was to clean the substrate are we talking just running the siphon over the top of the substrate or actually into the substrate ?

Have attached some photos of full tank etc as requested
 

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dw1305

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Hi all,
Are we talking about this one and is this both Macro / Micro combined.
<"Yes and yes">, composition is in the image below.
Is this a daily dose that youve very kindly calculated ?
I might start with that twice a week and then just see how <"your Frogbit looks">. If it looks healthy, and you are happy with its growth, you can leave it alone or you can try going to once a week. If it looks a bit pale, try three times a week.

I always just use plant health and growth rate as an indication of when to add fertiliser <"and conductivity"> as an indication of whether I'm changing enough water.

I should also have said that you can work out how much of the other nutrients, that your dose of 10ppm NO3 from Solufeed 2 : 1 : 4 will supply, by using their difference in quantity (from nitrogen) in the fertiliser mix.

Solufeed_elemental.jpg

I'll just do phosphorus (P) and potassium (K), but all the other nutrients can be worked out in the same way. Because this is an agricultural fertiliser phosphorus and potassium content <"are quoted as their oxides">, so we need to use the (bracketed) numbers for each element.

We are supplying 10 ppm NO3, which is 2.25 ppm N and N is 15% of our fertiliser mix.
  • For phosphorus we need to divide 3 (% P in our mix) by 15 (% N) = 0.2 and then multiply 0.2 by 2.25 = 0.45 ppm P
  • For potassium we need to divide 26.5 / 15 = 1.77 and then multiply 1.77 by 2.25 = 4 ppm K
cheers Darrel
 

dw1305

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Hi all,
Last one, <"as times are tough">, just a quick working of cost, based upon the figures above (adding 20 ppm NO3 a week) and the cost of the fertiliser (I'll go with the £13 I paid earlier in the year for a kilo (1000 g) of fertiliser).

@kellyboy47 would need to add 5.4g of fertiliser a week (20 ppm NO3 as 2 * 10 ppm doses). I'll round that up to 6g to take into account spillage etc.

So 1000 / 6 = 167, so that is enough fertiliser for 167 weeks (or 3.2) years <"at a cost of ~8p a week">.

£13 / 167 = 7.8 p.

cheers Darrel
 

Geoffrey Rea

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Hi Geoffrey....Is this too much lighting then and what would you suggest changing with my current lighting period to ?

Well the Jewel HeliaLux 900 light is rated at 140lm/watt and is a 40 watt fixture, so rated at 5600 lumens at 100%. This doesn’t quite work with LED but it’s the figures the manufacturer states.

You stated your lighting schedule as:

And this is my current lighting period
Dawn 9-10 White 0% Blue 40%
Sunrise 11-1 White 85% Blue 85%
Sunset 5-8 White 5% Blue 40%
Dusk 9-10.30 White 0% Blue 0%

Assuming you enjoy the blue in the mornings and evenings for a dawn/dusk effect. Also assuming the 13.5 hour day total is to roughly replicate daylight period in equatorial regions.

Sunrise and sunset at the equator is fast, sun goes straight up, sun goes straight down. Makes long ramp up/down periods artificial. Which is fine, can understand it offers relaxing viewing. Also doesn’t startle the fish.

Your question, ‘Is this too much lighting?’ The best answer I can offer is if you want to run this day length and schedule, you need to consider what will use that amount of light. It’s energy… and it’s available to anything that is photosynthetic for 13.5 hours per day at varied intensity.

If the plants aren’t there to use it, something else will. Dense planting shades out areas of the tank, limiting surfaces being bathed with light.

Also, you’re running at 85% intensity (4760 lumens) at peak and have lower light loving plants e.g. Cryptocoryne. Would need PAR data on the light unit to understand what is reaching the plants. But expecting, with a decent level of confidence, that this intensity setting is too high for your current setup.

Also, if I was to clean the substrate are we talking just running the siphon over the top of the substrate or actually into the substrate ?

Folks have different preferences to this. Personally just siphon over top of the substrate to lift up any particles on the surface. Disturbing your substrate (aquarium soil) can be very counterproductive.
 

_Maq_

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Czech Republic
It’s energy… and it’s available to anything that is photosynthetic for 13.5 hours per day at varied intensity.
Don't you think that 13.5 hours is way too much? I've observed plants 'wake up' with the first daylight. Let's say at 6 am. From then on the light period should be counted, and many plants seem to 'close their leaves' roughly 10 hours later. To me, 13.5 hours of lighting seems too much, and algae may benefit from that.
Disturbing your substrate (aquarium soil) can be very counterproductive.
I very much agree.
 

palcente

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26 May 2021
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Location
Kent
How big water changes you do and how often? If you use pre built fert and cannot dose N P K separately, you will see acummulation. From experience phosphate accumulation triggers cyano for me, heavily accelerated by warm temperatures. There's contention around this (redfield ratio), but I've tried sticking to it and it works for me.
 

Myrtle

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28 Oct 2021
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101
Location
Basingstoke
Hi, I'm looking to replace my over the counter ferts with solufeed but maths is not my strong point (combined with a large dose of brain fog) so I'm not sure I've worked out the amount needed for my wee 17 litre tank correctly. I've arrived at 0.25g, I assume bi-weekly but would really appreciate verification!
 
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