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Marsilea minuta?

Discussion in 'Plant Help' started by Progen, 29 Dec 2016.

  1. Progen

    Progen Member

    Messages:
    404
    I got a bottle of seeds off eBay from a Chinese dealer. They were labeled as HC and germinated within 2 - 3 days. Tried them both emersed and immersed and both germinated successfully. This photo is of the immersed ones after 16 days.

    By chance, I saw some photos of marsilea minuta and was wondering whether that's what they are because a lot of hobbyists have said that the seeds are definitely not HC.

    9q9EcGQ.jpg

    As you can see, they are starting to develop another pair of leaves perpendicular to the first.
     
    Aqua360 likes this.
  2. Berlioz

    Berlioz Member

    Messages:
    111
    It's not marsilea. In fact I'm pretty certain it's not even an aquatic. If you chat with some of the aquascapers in Indonesia on Instagram, they'll tell you it dies submerged after a couple of weeks. Seems to grow indefinitely emergent though.
     
    dw1305 likes this.
  3. Progen

    Progen Member

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    It's getting confusing now. Someone said it becomes a long stemmed plant. Another said it was doing fine even after 4+ months.

    What would be best would be if we could know exactly what it is.
     
  4. dw1305

    dw1305 Expert

    Messages:
    6,237
    Hi all,
    @Berlioz is right, it definitely isn't a fern (like Marsilea) you can see the <"two cotyledons"> that show that it is a higher plant. If the cotyledons (first two large "leaves") are notched or "caudiform" (photo below), it is likely to be a Brassica, possibly something like Indian Mustard (Brassica juncea).

    DSC01006.JPG

    We had a post a while a go <"What is "carpet seed""> that suggested the seeds might be Herniaria glabra, but I think that has a longer, more lanceolate cotyledon.

    cheers Darrel
     
  5. Progen

    Progen Member

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    404
    It's going to be tough to tell for now because both the emersed and immersed ones have stagnated in development for the past week.
     
  6. Progen

    Progen Member

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    404
    How about Marsilea Quadrifolia?

    Any chance of these being that? To those who've had experience with quadrifolia, do the four leaves grow out together or two at a time?
     
  7. Progen

    Progen Member

    Messages:
    404
    4Ow46Nw.jpg

    This is after 3 weeks from accidental seeding. Fully immersed.
     
  8. dw1305

    dw1305 Expert

    Messages:
    6,237
    Hi all,
    It definitely isn't a fern, they all have leaves that <"unfold from a crozier"> (A Marsilea sp. below).

    150111mb.jpg

    Your plant is a <"Flowering plant"> (an Angiosperm) and a dicotyledon.

    cheers Darrel
     
    zozo and Mick.Dk like this.
  9. Progen

    Progen Member

    Messages:
    404
    Oh dear, there goes the marsilea dream. Was seriously hoping it'd be something which can live immersed because I have a custom 2' cube coming and with their germination rate, I can have a full carpet within 3 weeks.

    They were a bit slow in this current tank because the water had no fertilization, lights were insufficient and no water changes during the first 10 days or so.
     
    Last edited: 6 Jan 2017
  10. AndreiD

    AndreiD Member

    Messages:
    114
    Looks like u have the same problem like a guy from a romanian forum , he bought the same seeds from internet , pretending that they are HC , but they arent , look here how they look after growth

    http://www.acvariu.ro/forum/posts/list/38650.page

    I know its in romanian language but you can see the pictures and its NOT Hygrophila polysperma
     
  11. Progen

    Progen Member

    Messages:
    404
    Ok, here's another hopeful guess.
    Could it be a hydrocolyte?
     
  12. dw1305

    dw1305 Expert

    Messages:
    6,237
    Hi all,
    No, Hydrocotyle has alternate leaves, your plant (and the one in the linked thread) has "opposite decussate" leaves.
    phylleaf_en.gif
    No, but it might be Hygrophila corymbosa? A plant from the Acanthaceae would have opposite decussate leaves.

    The only real way to tell wold be to grow it emersed and see if it flowers.

    cheers Darrel
     

    Attached Files:

    three-fingers, zozo and Mick.Dk like this.
  13. AndreiD

    AndreiD Member

    Messages:
    114
  14. Mick.Dk

    Mick.Dk Member

    Messages:
    1,268
    This one look very much like a Hygrophila sp.- there are many to choose from.
    Like said before, it should be grown emerse for flowers for ID. Hygrophila are usually very easy to flower.
    Some of the Hygrophila's are very virile, easily producing seed, that is (relatively) easy to harvest with a high percentage germinating.
    These are facts, that would make it a likely candidate for selling seeds...........
     
    dw1305 likes this.
  15. Progen

    Progen Member

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    Thanks for more information!
     
  16. Progen

    Progen Member

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    404
    tBmbZU5.jpg

    Here are two photos to help narrow down what it's not.

    exUtqGG.jpg
     
  17. Progen

    Progen Member

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    6NPxUTx.jpg

    This is what those sneaky buggers have grown into. The photo doesn't really show it but some of them have reddish leaves.

    I have to admit that they're not growing that well because they were accidentally introduced into the tank when I poured in the leftover aquasoil (can't afford to waste a single granule of that black gold) into my main tank.
     
  18. Mick.Dk

    Mick.Dk Member

    Messages:
    1,268
    Look a lot like some Hygrophila sp.
    - some of the Hyg. plysperma variations have an orange tint.
     
    hogan53 and dw1305 like this.
  19. three-fingers

    three-fingers Member

    Messages:
    313

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