Mazzei venturi

Discussion in 'Carbon Dioxide (CO2)' started by zig, 31 Aug 2008.

  1. zig

    zig Member

    Messages:
    686
    Location:
    Dublin Ireland
    Does anybody know a company in Europe that supplies mazzei venturis suitable for aquarium use.

    Has anyone on the forum considered using these/is using these for CO2 diffusion?
     
  2. ceg4048

    ceg4048 Expert/Global Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    8,952
    Location:
    Chicago, USA
    Hi Peter,
    Yeah, I'm working on a How To article with GerryD from over at the Barr Report. Not only is it difficult to find the injectors over here but the external pumps are like hen's teeth and are expensive. Don't even think about plumbing them inline with the typical filter outlets. Iwaki UK and MagDrive UK act as though their external pumps are made out of plutonium or something. They don't show prices on their website and you have to plead with them to get any kind pricing info. Buying the injectors and having them shipped from abroad is no problem because they are just plastic and weigh nothing so shipping is a breeze but the pumps are a different story. Matching the pump output to the injector size is also critical and Gerry is working up a table to make it easy.

    Cheers,
     
    Jose likes this.
  3. zig

    zig Member

    Messages:
    686
    Location:
    Dublin Ireland
    Thanks Clive sounds good, any idea when the article will be published?

    I believe some people have run them off ordinary cannister filters with a certain amount of success, although obviously this is not ideal as it will restrict the flow considerably of the filter and the pressure required may not be optimum but it still seems to work to a degree. I was hoping to find a local source for the mazzei so I could play around with it using ordinary cannister filters, I have a couple spare here including a tetratec 1200 which could run the mazzei on its own and then I could just run another filter for the normal tank operation. I'm finding shipping costs from the USA expensive for the mazzei venturi, probably the same cost as the item itself. I was just going to play around with it tbh, once I had the mazzei I could add a standalone pump later if I wanted. The tanks I was going to use it on are not big so I may get away with "winging it".

    Article sounds good though, could be a good step forward for the hobby to pin that one down.
     
  4. ceg4048

    ceg4048 Expert/Global Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    8,952
    Location:
    Chicago, USA
    Hi Peter,
    Yes, maybe a separate canister on it's own would do the trick. I'm surprised the shipping costs are high but if you think about it, if you found a unit here it would probably cost the same numerical value in £ as $ in the USA meaning it would cost twice as much, so really if the shipping costs equal the price of the unit then you're probably doing OK (that's a pathetic justification, I know :arghh: ). Geryy's doing most of the work on the article, I'm just doing the editing and trying to keep it real from a UK perspective because one of the other issues is the fittings which are different over there. Should be just a matter of a week or two but I'll get a status update from Gerry and report back, OK?

    If the injectors are to be found here they would be sold in the industrial chemical industry. I'll also try to contact Mazzei US to see if there are UK distributors.

    Cheers,
     
  5. zig

    zig Member

    Messages:
    686
    Location:
    Dublin Ireland
    I know what you mean about the cost alright, any mazzei injectors I have tracked down from Europe or the UK have been very expensive, I will keep on looking though, they seem to be overpriced pieces of plastic fullstop, mainly because they are patented I presume. I will probably buy them from the states in the end, but yes there must be a UK distributor, it would be worth checking out.

    Very interested in what you guys put together.

    I will keep doing a bit of research on it myself but probably hold off buying anything until you guys are ready to publish the article, no pressure then, eh :lol:

    Thanks Clive.
     
  6. Ray

    Ray Member

    Messages:
    474
    Location:
    Switzerland
    So you are planning to use one of these to distribute CO2?

    http://www.mazzei.net/products/injector_info.htm

    But not necessarily off a filter outlet, possibly off its own pump? It looks very similar, to me, to the venturi diffusors you can already get? I'm looking forward to this too...
     
  7. ceg4048

    ceg4048 Expert/Global Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    8,952
    Location:
    Chicago, USA
    No mate. One has nothing to do with the other. Although they use similar science their application and implementation are different.

    Cheers,
     
  8. ceg4048

    ceg4048 Expert/Global Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    8,952
    Location:
    Chicago, USA
  9. zig

    zig Member

    Messages:
    686
    Location:
    Dublin Ireland
    Thanks Clive, yes I have come across that link already, they are very expensive, they are looking for £50 for one venturi without postage costs inc. I cant work out the postage until I fill in my credit card details etc , probably another £10 or so. Anyway they are too dear.

    This is the best link I have found so far is this, worldwide shipping.

    http://www.dtpetsupplies.com/catalog/advanced_search_result.php?keywords=mazzei&x=5&y=10

    The mazzei's are a good price from here, downside, shipping is expensive.They also do various nozzle adaptors on this site as well for the mazzei's, so no trouble fitting them up to a cannister or any other flexible type tubing. I want to buy two mazzeis + adaptors and it works out cheaper to buy both from the USA than buy one from the UK in the link above. Strong Euro V dollar helps here, although the Euro is also at record levels against sterling also, doesn't make this company any cheaper though. I can get both delivered for about €80 from the US site.
     
  10. Garuf

    Garuf Member

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    4,959
    Location:
    Leeds.
  11. mick b

    mick b Member

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    80
  12. Garuf

    Garuf Member

    Messages:
    4,959
    Location:
    Leeds.
  13. a1Matt

    a1Matt Member

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    Here you go Gareth ;) ...

    http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... :IT&ih=002

    Although there is no brand mentioned I bought one of these (to use as a venturi on a DIY inline reactor) and when it turned up it was the Aquamedic one.

    PS So as not to confuse anyway trying to understand the workings of a mazzei injector, This is off topic as these are not mazzei's but simple tees
     
  14. Garuf

    Garuf Member

    Messages:
    4,959
    Location:
    Leeds.
    Have you tried it out for injecting co2? do you think it's a viable option?
     
  15. a1Matt

    a1Matt Member

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    2,518
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    I'll PM you so as not to hijack this thread anymore!
     
  16. JamesM

    JamesM Member

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    1,913
    Location:
    The BIG End, South Wales
    No, please hijack it, others want to know too :D
     
  17. a1Matt

    a1Matt Member

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    2,518
    Location:
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    As you asked I will post my PM here as well!

    Admins - if I am being disrespectful please feel free to delete\move my post if you see fit.


    No I haven't - I am not feeding CO2 directly into the tee. It forms part of the venturi loop in my external CO2 reactor (yet to be comissioned).

    Is it viable? Definitely Yes - but no more so than just placing the end of the CO2 line near the intake of the filter and letting the filter suck it in.

    Here is a thread talking about my usage of the tee:

    viewtopic.php?f=20&t=1926&start=0&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&hilit=barr+reactor

    A genuine mazzei venturi on the other hand is something else. I have not gone for the mazzei option as I understand that the trick there (speaking vicariously, as I have never owned a mazzei venturi) is to match the flow rate\head pressure of the pump to the mazzei and that they need a serious bit of flow too work properly. When you get them working correctly they are meant to be fantastic. From what I can gather they are best suited to large tanks.

    I don't have Clives eloquence, so won;t even begin to describe a mazzei venturi. I spen a few hours on barrreport to gain my limited knowledge on mazzei venturis.
     
  18. a1Matt

    a1Matt Member

    Messages:
    2,518
    Location:
    Bromley
    Garuf just replied to my PM!.... I hope he doesn't mind me airing it in public :D

    This post is really interesting and shows that the tee can be used for injecting CO2 (or O2 for that matter).

    The 'plumbing' to put it in the system is the same as the Mazzei.

    The difference lies in that the AM tee (as per Toms post and my reactor) is just a 4mm open tube.
    A mazzei venturi looks much the same from the outside , but the '4mm bit' where the gas goes in is not an open tube. I don't know exactly what it is but I think it has some sort of fluted opening instead.

    I hope that makes some sense, like I say I only have a basic grasp of these concepts and do struggle to explain them.
     
  19. a1Matt

    a1Matt Member

    Messages:
    2,518
    Location:
    Bromley
    I'll just add... I'm keen to see the outcome of any articles on mazzei venturis aimed at a UK market.

    A small 'mazzei valved tee piece' seems like the way of the future to me.

    It has got to be better than the hassle we have with reactors and diffusers :rolleyes:
     
  20. plantbrain

    plantbrain Expert

    Messages:
    1,950
    Please note, the mazzei venturi has trade offs, every method nutrients, cO2, light, tanks etc does..........

    Looking at these trade offs and seeing which is best for you is the key focus here.

    Mazzei:
    These need higher flow rates/pressures.
    So unless you have a external pump, 600-1200gph ranges, do not bother.
    You can do sump applications using larger powerheads etc.
    But if you have a sump, might as well just use the return pump's impeller then.

    The reducing Tee allows you not to lose any flow and add it in line post canister filter, or in the return tube etc.
    This requires a check valve, 2 ideally(redundant back up).

    You may also add a Tee to inlet, one from the CO2 tank and then one from a small air pump, you need a check vlave for each line so the CO2 does not go out the air pump obviously and the backpressure in the filter line does not back up into the CO2 or air pump.

    This way, you can add aeration at night using a timer and CO2 during the day.

    Very simple modification.
    This will degas and keep O2 higher when you need it, and CO2 high when you need it and low when you do not.

    Another solution that is similar to the Reducing Tee, is the CalAqua lab's diffuser:
    http://www.aquaessentials.co.uk/index.p ... ts_id=2143
    Cost a bit more and easy to break(don't ask).

    Another similar version is a DIY PCV threaded screw adapter, that goes from the return line size to a larger diameter and you drill a hole to add the CO2 line and glue to prevent leaks. Then you place an air stone inside this, pretty much like a DIY ugly version of the CAL CO2 in line stone above.
    Or you can run a DIY reactor tube.

    I think the Reducing Tee is fine and works well on good sized tanks.
    I use more flow in the tank itself to blast the froth around, but you get far better mist using a mazzei than with these other methods.

    But the smaller tanks, it's less of an issue.
    So the trade offs work well and give more options and in line vs sump applications.

    Regards,
    Tom Barr
     

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