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Melting Marsilea hirsuta & Staurogyne repens?

Good stuff Lee. Keep an eye on things. As plant mass increases it usually then requires a slight injection rate bump. Perform you pH profile checks on a regular basis, maybe every week or so to keep on top of it. Problems are always around the corner...

Cheers,
 
Hello Lee!

First of all, sorry to use your topic to write some questions about the same subject. :)

Are things still working properly in your tank? Have you done any more pH test to see if the flutuations are constant? How are your plants?

Clive have opened my eyes for a problem that i thought i didnt have, like he did here in the 5th post! :p

Regarding the position of the diffuser under the filter inflow, i have some questions: since the bacteria in the filter are "feed" by O2, inst dangerous to have CO2 passing through? And could not the CO2 forme larger bubbles inside the filter, causing cavitation noises?

Cheers
 
Hi Muse! Yea everything seems to be going well at the minute. I monitor my pH weekly now, just to make sure everything is running as it should do. Following the above conversation with Clive, i also removed my lilly pipe and ran a spray bar along the full length of the back glass, i also installed an inline diffuser. As clive discusses above, flow/distribution and Co2 all need to be as efficient as possible, hence me making a few changes.

With regards to passing Co2 through your filter intake, check post 12 of this thread. I done this for a while with no problems, other than the odd burp from my filter. Passing Co2 through my filter improved Co2 dissolution substantially, as you can see in the initial, and subsequent pH depression tests.

Hope that helps? :)
 
Muse said:
Regarding the position of the diffuser under the filter inflow, i have some questions: since the bacteria in the filter are "feed" by O2, inst dangerous to have CO2 passing through?
Click to expand...
No, there is absolutely no impact from that point of view because the amount of CO2 dissolved in water cannot be affected by the amount of any other gas dissolved in the water at the same time. This is true of all gases dissolved in water.

In fact, the solubility of any gas, in any liquid, is directly proportional to the partial pressure of the gas. This is a fundamental Gas Law. So no gas can interfere with the solubility of any other gas. Whatever Oxygen is available at low CO2 levels is just as available if the CO2 is increased. Indirectly, CO2 feeds some of our desirable bacteria and also feeds the plants, which then causes then plants to eject MORE Oxygen into the water column. So there is often actually a net Oxygen INCREASE with the increase in CO2.

Please review more details in the thread Best and simplest way to inject CO2? | Page 2 | UK Aquatic Plant Society


Cheers,
 
Hello, here i am again! :)

Today, i have been monitoring the pH in my tank and the results are horrible!

13:00 - 7.0
14:30 - 7.0 (CO2 On)
16:00 - 7.0 (Lights On)
17:30 - 6.8
22:00 - 6.5

Looking at these values, i checked my kH and it is 11dkH! Is the kH causing the low flutuations of CO2 or is just low CO2 levels in my tank?

Cheers
 
Not yet. Tomorrow is water change day so i decided to do the measurments before any movements.

Lets ser what clive says about it!

Thanks Lee! ;)
 
Muse said:
Today, i have been monitoring the pH in my tank and the results are horrible!
13:00 - 7.0
14:30 - 7.0 (CO2 On)
16:00 - 7.0 (Lights On)
17:30 - 6.8
22:00 - 6.5
Looking at these values, i checked my kH and it is 11dkH! Is the kH causing the low flutuations of CO2 or is just low CO2 levels in my tank?
Click to expand...
As Lee mentioned, these numbers don't look good. With an alkalinity of 11 degrees the pH will not move as easily, however, as you can see, there was a movement from 7.0 to 6.5, so the number does move, but it takes 8 hours to do so. This means there is a problem with the method of dissolution.

You'll probably need to use a combination of injection rate increase and relocation of the diffuser.

Cheers,
 
Hi Lee. Yes, i did but a lot of cavitations noises inside my eheim 2217! :( since im always all day out for work, im afraid to leave it like this so i change it again.

I have tried a new placement just now so need to see how it goes. At this moment, i have my diffuser in front right corner (2bps). The filter outlet is in front left corner. In the back right corner, i put a 600lph pump and in the back left corner is the filter inlet. From what i see, the flow is strong and CO2 reaches all tank but we never know how effective it is...
Cheers
 
That might be due to low flow rate through the filter. How much media is in the filter? If it's filled to the brim you 'll be able to reduce it by at least half. That should improve flow and will do a better job of dissolving the bubbles. I don't know if it's true in your case, just exploring possibilities, but many people have too much media in their filter which affects flow.

Each time you make a change take the pH readings to see if it improved. You cannot tel by looking at bubbles.

Cheers,
 
hi Clive.

i have a bag of jbl micromec and 3 or 4 sponge disc that came with the filter. the filter has 1000 lph capacity so its expected to have 500/600 lph of real capacity atm. thats why i added the pump in the opposite corner of outlet.

i did pH readings after the change but no changes regarding the previous ones. i believe that kH is the responsible for it. i have increase the co2 injection from 2 to 3 bps and change the time to turn it on one and half hour before (now it turning on at 13:00). the only visual change i see is that my cryptos are pearling for the 1st time but i know this doesnt means anything.

should i take some of the sponges from the filter?

cheers
 
Hi mate,
I'm not sure what you mean by having a pump at the opposite corner? That doesn't sound good for flow distribution. Do you have an image of the geometry? You can try removing some of the micromec to see if it has an effect on flow rate.

Muse said:
the only visual change i see is that my cryptos are pearling for the 1st time but i know this doesnt means anything.
Click to expand...
Well, in this case it means something because it means that the crypts at least are OK with the increase in bubble rate. To further examine, if you reduce the bubble rate back to 2bps and then if they stop pearling, then you have confirmed that the pearling was due to the increased bubble rate and not due to some other irrelevant factor. We tell people to not have pearling as a goal, but the phenomenon still can help us to analyze what's happening in the tank by corroboration.

So this might tell you that your problem is injection rate related and not distribution related.

It probably sounds like I'm talking in circles, but the idea is that the effectiveness of the dissolution is related to injection rate, timing, as well as flow rate and distribution patterns, so having to address 4 different variables can be confusing.

If there are no fish in the tank then injection rate increase is the easiest thing to change. Flow rate is next easiest, by pump addition or filter upgrade, or by media deletion, then, most difficult is to fix, the distribution pattern. I need to see a schematic or an actual image of your flow outlets so that I don't get confused.....:crazy:

Cheers,
 
Hello Clive!

ceg4048 said:
I'm not sure what you mean by having a pump at the opposite corner? That doesn't sound good for flow distribution. Do you have an image of the geometry? You can try removing some of the micromec to see if it has an effect on flow rate.
Click to expand...

I dont have here any photo of the tank but i made a scheme (aerial view) in order to try to clarify any doubts. :p
rba1.JPG

About the media inside the filter, i will try to do some changes and see if the flow gets better.


ceg4048 said:
Well, in this case it means something because it means that the crypts at least are OK with the increase in bubble rate. To further examine, if you reduce the bubble rate back to 2bps and then if they stop pearling, then you have confirmed that the pearling was due to the increased bubble rate and not due to some other irrelevant factor. We tell people to not have pearling as a goal, but the phenomenon still can help us to analyze what's happening in the tank by corroboration.

So this might tell you that your problem is injection rate related and not distribution related.
Click to expand...

I might do the test to confirm that. ;)

If the problem is insjection, i believe that is easier to solve. I still can increase the number of bubbles per second without having too many big bubbles. I also can keep the same bps rate and increase the time with CO2 on (turning on earlier again lol).


ceg4048 said:
It probably sounds like I'm talking in circles, but the idea is that the effectiveness of the dissolution is related to injection rate, timing, as well as flow rate and distribution patterns, so having to address 4 different variables can be confusing.

If there are no fish in the tank then injection rate increase is the easiest thing to change. Flow rate is next easiest, by pump addition or filter upgrade, or by media deletion, then, most difficult is to fix, the distribution pattern. I need to see a schematic or an actual image of your flow outlets so that I don't get confused.....:crazy:
Click to expand...

Totally understood mate! Too many factors to have in mind with a unique goal! If you still need a picture from the tank, i can take it later when i arrive home.

Thanks you for all the help mate! ;)

Cheers
 
Muse said:
I dont have here any photo of the tank but i made a scheme (aerial view) in order to try to clarify any doubts. :p
Click to expand...
Yeah, that's what I thought. This is not ideal configuration, generally. It's not a good idea to have pump outputs that are opposing each other. You might want to think about moving the pump to the left side, or moving the filter outlet to the right side. Then the two flows act in concert instead of cancelling each other out. You should also try moving both tho the back wall facing forward. Again, try the different configuration and take the pH measurements, and that will tell you which works best.

As I've mentioned to other folks, when you have trouble with getting good CO2 using an in-tank diffuser, it's worth putting the diffuser by the inlet so that the inlet sucks up the gas bubbles as much as possible.

Cheers,
 
Hi Clive.

The idea to have filter outlet and the pump in those positions was to have a flow from left to right in front and right to left in the back, in order to have a kind of round water movement in the tank.

I have followed your advice and put the pump in the left back corner so now i have both pointed to the right of the tank. What i noticed is that the CO2 bubbles are coming to the left of the tank close to the substrate, which it seems good. When the bigger ones start to go up, the water flow make them move again against to the right glass.

I have measure the pH now and its on a steady 7.0 ( i think the other measurments that i presented were not right since the pH has been 7.0 for a long time). With 11dkH, its normal i think.

The cryptos are pearling again but i will keep the bps rate in order to judge the pump position change tomorrow.

Cheers
 
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