More Algae Advice Please

Discussion in 'Algae' started by johnny70, 13 Jan 2008.

  1. johnny70

    johnny70 Member

    Messages:
    636
    Location:
    Bakewell, Derbsyhire
    Been battling with a bit of BBA see post below, spot dosing seems to be helping with that.

    Now i have this to deal with?
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    This is from my rio 180

    10 hour lighting period with standard juwel lamps, with a 4 hour break

    Juwel internal filter with 1500lph powerhead
    Fluval 305 External Filter

    40ltr weekly water changes with sand vac.

    Filters cleaned when needed(when they slow down)

    40ml every other day dosing of Potassium Nitrate Potassium Phosphate GH Booster and Trace on alternate days.

    8ml daily dosing of Easycarbo(just finished with excel) to help deal with BBA.

    Amonnia 0
    Nitrite 0
    Nitrate 10
    gH 6
    kH 0/1
    temp 24c
    pH 6.8

    Any advice
     
  2. SuperColey1

    SuperColey1 Member

    Messages:
    2,668
    Location:
    Lincoln UK
    Are they the T5 lamps. Whats the total wattage.
    Is easy carbo the only source of carbon or are you injecting?

    Andy
     
  3. johnny70

    johnny70 Member

    Messages:
    636
    Location:
    Bakewell, Derbsyhire
    yeah T5's just the standard one, 30w each so a total of 60w so about 1.5wpg

    yes just easycarbo, no co2 being injected.

    JOHNNY
     
  4. SuperColey1

    SuperColey1 Member

    Messages:
    2,668
    Location:
    Lincoln UK
    Someone will shoot me down but IMO T5 lights with reflectors are much better than the T12 that the WPG rule was based on. maybe as much as x1.75 (x2 if they are HOT5!!!

    This is just me 'guestimating' therefore I would work on the prinnciple that you have the equivalent to 2.5ish WPG against the old rule which would put you in the medium to high bracket which would run a lot better with CO2 and EI or PMDD+PO4 dosing!!!

    I though 180Ltrs was 48USG which would make you 1.25WPG (2.2WPG)

    Andy
     
  5. Ed Seeley

    Ed Seeley Member

    Messages:
    3,262
    Location:
    Nottingham
    First thing I'd do is clean the filters more regularly. Algae is very easily triggered by ammonia and the best way to keep ammonia under control is a nice, clean bacteria filled filter. At every water change I'd clean the top sponges by cleaning them in tank water you've removed to remove this potential ammonia source from the tank before it completely breaks down.

    I agree with Andy about the T5 thing. I've heard from APC that you need to multiply the WPG by 1.2 with T5s to get a 'real' level of the light produced. (I think this does assume good reflectors too though). I think adding CO2 would be a huge help to this tank.

    Try and remove as much as you can every time you change the water too.

    Good luck.

    Edit: Oh and the standard aquarium lamp size is T8, not T12 Andy, but I'm sure that was just a typo? T12s are even less powerful as there is a higher re-strike and I think they use more energy per unit of length?
     
  6. SuperColey1

    SuperColey1 Member

    Messages:
    2,668
    Location:
    Lincoln UK
    It wasn't a typo. :p

    I was meaning that the WPG rule was calculated on T12s. I wasn't referring to the original T8s in the Juwel. :rolleyes:

    Have you found that thread on APC. Ive been looking for it for months and all I can find is the one with the half finished chart. Theres one somwhere that has a definition of the multiplications (although it wont be accurate it is a reference at least) ;)

    Andy
     
  7. Ed Seeley

    Ed Seeley Member

    Messages:
    3,262
    Location:
    Nottingham
    Sorry mate, :oops:

    I'll have a look, on there now...
     
  8. johnny70

    johnny70 Member

    Messages:
    636
    Location:
    Bakewell, Derbsyhire
    Thanks

    what I meant was with the filters was that I strip them down when the flow slows down, I do regular sponge rinsing ect. every week of two.

    I do have reflectors in which are pretty new.

    Would stripping out the affected plants and treating with Potassium Permanganate help as well as cutting off the affected leaves, or just taking them out all together?

    JOHNNY
     
  9. johnny70

    johnny70 Member

    Messages:
    636
    Location:
    Bakewell, Derbsyhire
    would adding anymore fast growing plants help out?

    JOHNNY
     
  10. Ed Seeley

    Ed Seeley Member

    Messages:
    3,262
    Location:
    Nottingham
  11. Ed Seeley

    Ed Seeley Member

    Messages:
    3,262
    Location:
    Nottingham
    Right, sorry that wasn't clear to me. That sounds good then.

    Taking off the worst affected leaves would be a good idea and adding some fast growing stems too. Hygrophilas will soon mop up any extra nutrients and aren't too fussy about lighting IME.

    I've never used PP so can't help you there, but does spot treating with Excel/EasyCarbo not knock this algae back?
     
  12. johnny70

    johnny70 Member

    Messages:
    636
    Location:
    Bakewell, Derbsyhire
    yeah sorry I wasn't that clear either:)

    PP is just like bleach solution people use but isn't suppose to damage any stems and leaves as badly, I treat my plants with a bath of this to remove any snails eggs or other nasties.

    I have only started spot treating the BBA in the last 3 days seems to knock it back quite well. not tried on the other yet, is it likely to work on that too?

    Cheers

    JOHNNY
     
  13. Ed Seeley

    Ed Seeley Member

    Messages:
    3,262
    Location:
    Nottingham
    I thought it was effective against a number or different types of algae. I'm not sure whether this Cladophora is one of them, but high Excel can kill 'Moss balls' and they are Cladophora sp. (I'm not sure that algae is Cladophora, but it does look a bit like it to me!)

    I'd spot treat it too and see what happens! Worst case it carries on growing and you have to use PP.
     
  14. johnny70

    johnny70 Member

    Messages:
    636
    Location:
    Bakewell, Derbsyhire
    Yeah will do, see what happens, pretty disheartened about this algae, tank was looking great till this started, I suppose I wanted natural, I got it :?

    What other fast growers do you recommend?

    Cheers
    JOHNNY
     
  15. Ed Seeley

    Ed Seeley Member

    Messages:
    3,262
    Location:
    Nottingham
    Pretty much any easy stem plant! I grow Cabomba, Rotala and Mayaca in highish light. To be honest I like Cabomba so much and it grows so well for me that I often use that. I think it likes the soft water.

    I've just found Hygrophilas bomb proof so recommended them first. There are some pretty nice ones around now, it's not just polysperma!!! I've got H.lacustris and H.sp.'Pantanal Wavy' in my new tank.

    But just use any stem plants you like the look of that don't need high tech conditions.

    As you don't use CO2 you may want to put a few floating plants in as they will grow rapidly using atmospheric CO2.
     
  16. ceg4048

    ceg4048 Expert/Global Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    8,937
    Location:
    Chicago, USA
    Hey Johnny,
    Here is some radical advice: If you run a non injected tank then stop the water changes. :wideyed:

    Barr's treatise on non-injected tanks indicates that each time you change the water you alter the CO2 content. This disrupts the stability of CO2 triggering the BBA. You may also want to consider a daily 3X Excel or Carbolife overdose for a few weeks.

    Cheers,
     
  17. johnny70

    johnny70 Member

    Messages:
    636
    Location:
    Bakewell, Derbsyhire
    Thats pretty much what Diana Walsteads approach seems to be too, reduce the water changes and let stuff happen, not sure what don't think I read that far yet :wideyed:

    Overdosing x3 won't be a problem then, well I guess you wonuldn't suggest it if if was :oops:

    Cheers
    JOHNNY
     
  18. ceg4048

    ceg4048 Expert/Global Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    8,937
    Location:
    Chicago, USA
    The overdosing only seems to be a problem for liverworts, bladderworts, and possibly vals. Pellias, Riccias and UG therefore don't like it. As Ed says, moss ball will die because they aren't moss at all but instead a form of algae. Most stem plants will appreciate it. Sorry, I should have qualified the statement. ;)

    Problems occur when trying to combine high tech and low tech methods. Since this is a low tech tank it's better to take things more slowly. I'm not sure therefore that using fast growing plants is necessarily the best way to go because fast growing plants typically require high nutrients and CO2. An exception as Ed says are the Hygrophillas which do well under most any condition.

    In low tech tanks, as long as you restrict the light the ammonia production feeds the plants and there is less danger of algae blooms. You only need to dose once a week or so. The plants effectively recycle organic waste. The dosing is therefore only supplemental. Once you turn up the lights though you are in a different regime where ammonia production is problematic and dosing/CO2 becomes the primary food source.

    Cheers,
     
  19. johnny70

    johnny70 Member

    Messages:
    636
    Location:
    Bakewell, Derbsyhire
    thanks for the reply.

    I think i have basically bought this on myself from the reasons you stated above, Dosing once a week with Excel, flourish and Iron everything was going ok, some defficiancies in the plant leaves( i believe) I'm thinking I should just go back to my very low tech approach and be happy with what I have.

    Maybe I should strip the tank down and start again?

    Cheers
    JOHNNY
     
  20. SuperColey1

    SuperColey1 Member

    Messages:
    2,668
    Location:
    Lincoln UK
    Tom has often suggested on TFF why overdose at all.

    He says a tank is for long term so just go by the bottle and keep it going for longer.

    I agree with CEG about the non CO2 approach with no water changes unles necessary although he does advocate this with soil or with leonardite underneath a substrate.

    Always worth a try.

    Andy
     

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