More Algae Advice Please

johnny70

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I don't believe the levels of micro or macro nutrients are being overdosed, I think that that approach is very wasteful. I though that my plants did seem to be suffering so then started thinking about adding the extra micro and macro nutrients.

I'm not seeing any algae in any of the other 5 tanks I have running, all are done the same way with dosing, cleaning, lighting etc.

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JOHNNY
 

johnny70

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Bloody stuff is getting worse been overdosing x3 everyday.

Not happy. any other suggestions?

Will see about the algae eaters next week.

JOHNNY
 

ceg4048

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Johnny, you've only been doing the overdose for 4 days. Normally you don't start to see results until 2-3 weeks. In the meantime manual removal and lighting reduction can help.

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johnny70

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ahhh. that long, fine then, forget I said anything, I was expecting result straight away :oops:

I'll be more patience.

Will a black out help?

JOHNNY
 

johnny70

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forgot to add, the algae seems to be eating away at the affected leaves. is that normal? it to the extent now that some look like lace :wideyed:

JOHNNY
 

stevet

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johnny70 said:
Will see about the algae eaters next week.

JOHNNY

Used to think that algae eaters were very quickly weaned off algae and only ate granules meant for my discus. I once had occasion to take the algae eaters out of my tank for some time - boy was i wrong. Those fish do a day-on-day cleanup job that you never notice until they arent there. I would def recommend siemese algae eaters for your situation. Maybe a bristlenose too. Certainly some consider these fish an unwelcome disruption to the tanks aesthetics, but as i dont give a stuff about being that anal about my tanks then i am ok with them being there.

Be careful not to buy the siemese flying fox isntead of SAE's - they can be more aggressive and territorial. I think they also grow bigger and may cease eating algae at all. Like in all things though, there will inevtably be someone out there who has one that does a fantastic job on algae! Not been my experience though.
 

ceg4048

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johnny70 said:
forgot to add, the algae seems to be eating away at the affected leaves. is that normal? it to the extent now that some look like lace :wideyed:

JOHNNY

Yes that's normal for algae. The plant continues to decline and the algae gets fed. Double whammy. That's one reason manual removal of affected leaves is so important in the battle. :idea:

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johnny70

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Ok thanks, some of the plants are so bad now, probably just take them out and get rid?

Will a bleach dip help the ones that aren't too bad like my anubias? to say its a slow grower its at least tripled in size and doesn't have a huge amount of algae on it.

Should I take my reflectors out for the time being?

JOHNNY
 

ceg4048

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Hi Johnny,
Bleach dips are controversial because they can do as much damage to the plant as to the algae. You also typically have to uproot the plant to do it which I don't believe helps a plant already under duress. Others may have a different perspective on the dip, but I would be much more inclined to do an excel spot treatment. Perhaps you can shut the filter(s) down for a few minutes and using a syringe, apply excel to the leaf.

If you are an extremist, you could try lowering the water level to expose the plants and apply the excel directly to increase the effective concentration. Replace the same water that you took out, remember you don't want new water which would disrupt the CO2 levels.

As SuperColey1 pointed out, this is long term so you should resist the urge to start nuking your tank with Intercontinental ballistic missiles. Stability is the key so that each "new" thing that you do stresses the plants and forces them to adjust to the new environmental conditions. Lighting reduction is generally the safest "quick" fix which results in lowered stress.

I would therefore say yes to the temporary removal of the reflectors.

Hang in there mate 8)

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GreenNeedle

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Been there done that.

If you bleach your Anubias they will start to turn white/yellow and over the space of a few days disintegrate!!!

I did it with some Anubia petite a few months back.

It did kill the algae though. lol

Andy
 

johnny70

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What about potassium permangante?

I have used that for snail eggs before

JOHNNY
 

johnny70

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Thanks again for the advice.

Reflectors are now off! still triple dosing the excel stuff. some area's where i directed the dose onto leaves, wood etc seems to be dying back, but some plants it has taken over completely so I will strip them out and see if there is anything I can save from them.

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johnny70

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Fianlly good news, the BBA has started to die off :D and the hair algea is also starting to go, having moved the reflectors seems to have helped, not dosed anything but easycarbo.

Bought some amano's and 3 SAE who are in Q/T for the time being, hopfully they will hepl any outbreaks in the future.

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ceg4048

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Hi Johnny,
Great news mate! ;) Just to be clear though, SAE's can never prevent an outbreak. The key to preventing algae outbreaks of any kind will be, in order of importance:

1. Appropriate light levels.
2. Stable and adequate CO2/carbon levels.
3. Appropriate nutrient dosing.

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johnny70

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thanks, good advice, hopefully I can get some advice on what will be more appropriate so I dont mess up like this again :) I bought the SAE because I like them not just for algae eating, though i will admit they moved up my wanted list quickly :oops:

JOHNNY
 

johnny70

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A thought, would the addition of my reflectors and under dosing of nutrients cause an outbreak of algae like the one I've just had? just lay away last night thinking???

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ceg4048

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Hi,
Well, In absolute terms reflectors alone won´t necessarily induce algae. It´s best to think in terms of the light intensity versus the amount of CO2/nutrients being dosed for that light level. High light levels cause a high demand for nutrients/CO2. It´s very difficult to say in any one tank what light level will result in which demand because there are so many variables. That´s why the Watts per Gallon WPG rule of thumb was developed. At WPG between say 1 and 1.5 you could typically get away without injecting CO2 and the nutrient demand is relatively low. Unfortunately, the WPG rule was developed before T5 lights were invented. It´s estimated that T5 plus reflectors increase the intensity of light by as much as a factor of 2 to 3 when compared to T8 or T12 lights used in the original WPG calculation.

This means that many cross the threshold of CO2 injection requirement without realizing it. If you are at or near the CO2 injection threshold therefore, yes, removal of the reflectors could conceivably bring you below the threshold.

Underdosing almost always results in poor plant health and subsequently, algae. Again, it´s difficult to quantify underdosing because dosing must always be in relation to the light level. Flow, number of plants, substrate type and other factors also contribute and complicate the issue. Severe underdosing causes an immediate impact whereas slight underdosing may not be that noticeable.

Hope this helps.

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johnny70

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Thanks again for the in-depth reply:)

The algae seems to have relented now, still overdosing on easycarbo at the moment, now my question is;

how do I go about reducing the easycarbo level without upsetting the balance? should in reduce by 1/3rd for a week or two, then reduce by a further 1/3rd, so I would be dosing 4ml daily??? currently dosing 12ml daily

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JOHNNY
 

ceg4048

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Hi Johnny,
Well BBA is Carbon related so really the only options you have are to either inject CO2 or to lower the light further if you wish to reduce the easycarbo dosing. You've already removed the reflectors so that will help but it's impossible to tell from long distance whether this by itself will be enough to stop the return of BBA. You may want to have a look at some CO2 kits. They are expensive but so is easycarbo. :arghh:

Once the algae is all gone your plan seems pretty good but I would wait 2-3 weeks before changing the dosing. No easy answer to this one. Just be prepared for the possibility that 12 ml daily (or some value greater than 4ml daily) may be required for this tank configuration. :rolleyes:

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johnny70

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Ok thanks, so basically see how it goes, if it comes back increase the levels again:)

Super!

Thanks for all the advice:)

JOHNNY
 

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