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My 60p soft water

Made some fertilisers. These will be a baseline for the next few months.

This is a new mix based on numerous observations in the last few months.

Fe 0.0875ppm DTPA
Mn 0.0465ppm Edta
Zn 0.015ppm. EDTA
Cu 0.00275ppm EDTA
Mo 0.002ppm NH4
Ni. 0.00035ppm SO4
B. 0ppm

I took several micro nutrient recipes into consideration, while also considering marschners values. I also made a smaller batch in case I want to make another mix soon. In the future I would also like to test the effects of boron overdose/Toxicity

In the final micro mix I also tried a small dose of citric acid, 0.1g/500ml. If things go sour (pun intended),the losses will be minimal since this mix will only last a couple months. Next time I’ll try something else. It also acts as a weak chelate, so that may help.

Macro

Exact values do not matter too much, so this mix I decided to use nh4no3 and urea, while also reducing Tds by using KNO3 instead of k2so4 for a potassium source. All values should be in line With marschners.

0.84N Nh4no3
0.84N Urea
0.35N KNO3
0.26P KH2PO4

2ppm N
0.26ppm P
1.33 K


8.8 NO3, 0.8 PO4, 1.33 K


In the future I would also like to try following marschners A little closer. More details to follow perhaps. I also have some magnesium glycinate to try.

Pictures of the stock solutions and final solution for reference.
6D5B0542-29B7-4147-AA52-A8B62FFF0973.jpeg

And a full tank shot as a prize for those who read this far and didn’t click off
FB2E0683-1BFB-4A7F-A63B-49329FDE168F.jpeg
 
Last edited:
milesjames said:
I know me and Erwin spent alot of time discussing ferts as he is an advocate for rich dosing but wanted to know how I'd got the colouration. We were unable to fully test the lean v rich over long term due to BBA.

Will definitely be using this plant again in the future so let me know how you get on. 😊
Click to expand...
It depends what you mean by rich dosing.

Like I mentioned, I'm at APT complete levels for water column and rich substrate (aka 2hr aquarist style) but with some tweaking to have less K. To some that is lean, to some that is rich - that's why I just state how much I add rather than use words like 'lean' and 'rich' :cool:

However, there are some posts that suggest that K is not a problem - as long as you have super soft water....
 
plantnoobdude said:
Made some fertilisers. These will be a baseline for the next few months.

This is a new mix based on numerous observations in the last few months.

Fe 0.0875ppm DTPA
Mn 0.0465ppm Edta
Zn 0.015ppm. EDTA
Cu 0.00275ppm EDTA
Mo 0.002ppm EDTA
Ni. 0.00035ppm EDTA
B. 0ppm

I took several micro nutrient recipes into consideration, while also considering marschners values. I also made a smaller batch in case I want to make another mix soon. In the future I would also like to test the effects of boron overdose/Toxicity

In the final micro mix I also tried a small dose of citric acid, 0.1g/500ml. If things go sour (pun intended),the losses will be minimal since this mix will only last a couple months. Next time I’ll try something else. It also acts as a weak chelate, so that may help.

Macro

Exact values do not matter too much, so this mix I decided to use nh4no3 and urea, while also reducing Tds by using KNO3 instead of k2so4 for a potassium source. All values should be in line With marschners.

0.84N Nh4no3
0.84N Urea
0.35N KNO3
0.26P KH2PO4

2ppm N
0.26ppm P
1.33 K


8.8 NO3, 0.8 PO4, 1.33 K


In the future I would also like to try following marschners A little closer. More details to follow perhaps. I also have some magnesium glycinate to try.

Pictures of the stock solutions and final solution for reference.
View attachment 192910
And a full tank shot as a prize for those who read this far and didn’t click off
View attachment 192912
Click to expand...
Plants are looking impressive! Especially the golden, pretty much as good as they can get in a high tech tank. Curious as to why you decided to go with chelated micros and especially EDTA-chelated?
 
Freshflora said:
Plants are looking impressive! Especially the golden, pretty much as good as they can get in a high tech tank.
Click to expand...
thank you, there are still many plant health issues however, wallichii looks pale, ludwigia Pantanal is curled and stunted, rotala macrandra is just being annoying, and for some reason I’m not able to get good growth from s repens.

As for chelates, I’m guessing you read about edta toxicity on tpt? Or from Joe? Anyway, that is not an issue as long as you aren’t dosing huge amounts of micro nutrients (0.5ppm Fe). Those will just be precipitating anyway so, no use. Using chelates also makes it slowly available to plants and less toxic to fish, because of the slow photo-degradation that means you can dose once or twice a week if you’d like. I’m not sure you can do this with unchelated micros.
 
plantnoobdude said:
Using chelates also makes it slowly available to plants and less toxic to fish, because of the slow photo-degradation that means you can dose once or twice a week if you’d like. I’m not sure you can do this with unchelated micros.
Click to expand...
EDTA decomposes slowly, some sources say around 4 weeks. Yet it never binds the same metal ion all the time! So, you can add Na-EDTA (pure EDTA is sparingly soluble) directly to the tank and it will form complexes (chelates) with any metal ions available according to EDTA affinity to each of them and to concentration of any of them. Par example, if you use ZnSO4 for dosing zinc, and Na-EDTA is present in the tank, some Zn ions will definitely form complex with Na-EDTA. On the other hand, if you add NaZn-EDTA, some Zn ions will definitely break free and remaining Na-EDTA will bind some other metal ion.
In short, the bond between a chelator and a metal ion is never absolutely stable. If it were, it could not be used as a fertilizer, anyway, because plants take up free ions! (There are suggestions that the whole complex may enter the plant's tissues but as far as I know there's remarkable uncertainty whether it really happens, and if yes, whether the metal ion can be successfully assimilated. - This is an open question to me, and I'll be grateful for an enlightenment, if anyone knows for sure.)
 
_Maq_ said:
EDTA decomposes slowly, some sources say around 4 weeks. Yet it never binds the same metal ion all the time! So, you can add Na-EDTA (pure EDTA is sparingly soluble) directly to the tank and it will form complexes (chelates) with any metal ions available according to EDTA affinity to each of them and to concentration of any of them. Par example, if you use ZnSO4 for dosing zinc, and Na-EDTA is present in the tank, some Zn ions will definitely form complex with Na-EDTA. On the other hand, if you add NaZn-EDTA, some Zn ions will definitely break free and remaining Na-EDTA will bind some other metal ion.
In short, the bond between a chelator and a metal ion is never absolutely stable. If it were, it could not be used as a fertilizer, anyway, because plants take up free ions! (There are suggestions that the whole complex may enter the plant's tissues but as far as I know there's remarkable uncertainty whether it really happens, and if yes, whether the metal ion can be successfully assimilated. - This is an open question to me, and I'll be grateful for an enlightenment, if anyone knows for sure.)
Click to expand...
No answers here, but I do have a question 😅
Say you dose a compound chelated with EDTA, and it starts to form complexes with other metal ions, does it “choose” the most reactive metal? In the planted aquarium would potassium EDTA occur “naturally” if dosing high amounts of edta and potassium, to me this seems most logical since, potassium is often present in high amounts in hobbyist aquariums, and on top of that, it is quite a reactive metal. In terms of probability, say in my tank I have 4ppm potassium and dose 0.015ppm zinc weekly, i find it hard to believe that edta would form a complex with zinc over potassium, unless there is something fundamental im completely missing.
 
The answer is affinity. EDTA, as well as any other chelating agent, has innate affinity to each metal ion. Monovalent alkali metals are excluded, so no worry about sodium and potassium. But Al3+, Ca2+, Mg2+ etc. may form complexes with EDTA. Yet EDTA was chosen because it has higher affinity for iron and other transition metals. This affinity has its units and metal ions can be ranked from 'most wanted' to 'lesser wanted'. But I don't keep the ranking in my head, and frankly, the details behind exceed my grasp. Enough to remember for us - laymen is that EDTA prefers transition metals, and iron in particular.
 
Ca:Mg:K
20:8:4

Water change every few weeks, 20-30 percent.

Macro,

0.84N Nh4no3
0.84N Urea
0.35N KNO3
0.26P KH2PO4

2ppm N
0.26ppm P
1.33 K


8.8 NO3, 0.8 PO4, 1.33 K

Divide by 7 dose daily, most of the time I use this half strength.

Fe 0.0875ppm DTPA
Mn 0.0465ppm Edta
Zn 0.015ppm. EDTA
Cu 0.00275ppm EDTA
Mo 0.002ppm NH4
Ni. 0.00035ppm SO4
B. 0ppm

Dose daily divide by 7
 
plantnoobdude said:
Ca:Mg:K
20:8:4

Water change every few weeks, 20-30 percent.

Macro,

0.84N Nh4no3
0.84N Urea
0.35N KNO3
0.26P KH2PO4

2ppm N
0.26ppm P
1.33 K


8.8 NO3, 0.8 PO4, 1.33 K

Divide by 7 dose daily, most of the time I use this half strength.

Fe 0.0875ppm DTPA
Mn 0.0465ppm Edta
Zn 0.015ppm. EDTA
Cu 0.00275ppm EDTA
Mo 0.002ppm NH4
Ni. 0.00035ppm SO4
B. 0ppm

Dose daily divide by 7
Click to expand...
In case you didn’t see it
@Viet1357911
 
plantnoobdude said:
Ca:Mg:K
20:8:4

Water change every few weeks, 20-30 percent.

Macro,

0.84N Nh4no3
0.84N Urea
0.35N KNO3
0.26P KH2PO4

2ppm N
0.26ppm P
1.33 K


8.8 NO3, 0.8 PO4, 1.33 K

Divide by 7 dose daily, most of the time I use this half strength.

Fe 0.0875ppm DTPA
Mn 0.0465ppm Edta
Zn 0.015ppm. EDTA
Cu 0.00275ppm EDTA
Mo 0.002ppm NH4
Ni. 0.00035ppm SO4
B. 0ppm

Dose daily divide by 7
Click to expand...
Thx for your info, its a bunch of Mg. Other plants look nice but walichi got some problem, i think Ca/Mg 10-4 give u better result.
Whats wrong with 10-4 🤔🤔
 
Wallichii can also grow well in EI dosing and lowtech... as long as water is soft. Though colour may not be as nice as high tech.

Wallichii problems are often due to CO2 instability or any form of instability. But once parameters are stable, stunted shoots can recover by growing new sideshoots.
 
Viet1357911 said:
Thx for your info, its a bunch of Mg. Other plants look nice but walichi got some problem, i think Ca/Mg 10-4 give u better result.
Whats wrong with 10-4 🤔🤔
Click to expand...
Will see how it looks when I get back from holiday, then adjust from there.




Did some moss collection recently.
28229F8D-3517-4CBA-9785-6B213C39FF71.jpeg
EA4D3024-F151-4E10-9A9C-40FF6CF4E9AA.jpeg
C5CB43E2-F50D-4CD8-9D1D-ADD453CAAF18.jpeg

First one is fontinalis, second one fissidens, Last is riccardia.
Wish I could get a precise ID, but I’m not that skilled.
 
88C370A8-0549-4891-9A70-9502E5976EA2.jpeg

Went on holiday, came back to this mess….. fuzz algae everywhere. Up on closer inspection the skimmer has stopped working, just glad my fish were fine! Probably due to the plant mass.

Challenge accepted!

Game plan:

Big 50% WC trim and replant everything and rub off algae or rinse in water. (It runs of fairly easy, so lucky there.)

Get back on dosing, but reduced macros, 2ppm no3 equivalent weekly should suffice.

Weekly WC for the next month to get algae out, will be running a small firm sponge to capture algae spores, during water changes and daily.

Plant mass and health are incredible so there should
image.jpg
image.jpg
be no problem getting this algae out.
 
I feel your pain I'm nearly back to full health after the snail incident after my holiday.

It might be worth if you are uprooting plants to do a dip with 1/5 excel for 10-15mins with non delicate plants.

Its a bit aggressive I grant you but it'll get any algea out of heavy stem mass in no time and is far better than the other dip options.
 
milesjames said:
1/5 excel
Click to expand...
Would you mind elaborating on the concentration?
Not sure I need it tho, the algae really comes off easily and seems to be barely clinging to the plants. I don’t think the algae is very healthy at all.
 
So I do 1 part excel to 5 parts water normally I mix up no more than 120ml (can be less for single plants).

I just do the plants in batches whilst I rescape, just wait till the algea goes clear/red dependent on the type.
 
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