My First Aquascape - Red Cherry Jungle (30L)

[SirBuce]

Hi folks hope all is well there

Wanted to write about this tank (and my turtle vivarium) since Christmas - they are part of my new year's resolution ha.

I was awed when I found out about Aquascaping last summer - I have some influence from my late grandfather who used to keep some big Arowanas when I was young - the aquarist hobby is entire different world now lol.

So ya this is my first experiment/trial and errors tank that is now just about 6 months old - I learnt so much in the past months (and read so many threads/posts here aha, great stuff really) - I would say it is not even near 'good' but I am very grateful of the experience gained from it.

As usual, summary/specs of the tank are outlined below with some related side stories, and then I have a progression/timeline table with photos; and then a personal remark at the end.

(Photo on 29Jan23)

Tank Name My Red Cherry (Aquael 30L) started 18/8/2022
L*W*H 29*29*35cm
Filter Aquael D&N 30L default + Aquanova Internal NBF300
Heater Aquael Ultra Heater 50W (at 25C)

Substrates Trixie Yellow Desert Sand
Soil Tropica Substrate 4L
Hardscape Center piece this random handsome looking 'tree' from my LFS

Spoiler: The overall scape

The soil was put into filter bags x2 placed as the base of the scape and then covered by this vivarium sand that I bought for the turtles (ended up didn't use for their first tank). If I could go back in time I would just use a normal aquasoil, my LFS only has this soil that requires gravel on top and I didn't want to use gravels.

I simply wanted a tank that allows me to grow plants under water - the 'tree' center piece was perfect for me try growing moss+MC attached.

I was hoping that the overall scape will look like a tree (with greens) on a (flat) grass field ha....didn't work out as I wished lol.

Plants list
1 Eleocharis acicularis 'Mini'
2 Micranthemum tweediei (MC)
3 Rotala indica 'Bonsai'
4 Taxiphyllum alternans ('Taiwan' moss)
5 Alternanthera reineckii 'Rosanervig' + 'Mini'
6 Myriophyllum 'Guyana'
7 Bucephalandra 'Kedagang'
8 Rotala rotundifolia 'H'ra'/'Orange Juice'
9 Marsilea Hirsuta
10 Hydrocotyle tripartita
11 Hydrocotyle verticillata
12 Ludwigia sp. 'Super Mini Red'
13 Leptodictyum riparium moss
14 Taxiphyllum 'Spiky' moss
15 Pistia stratiotes (dwarf water lettuce)

Spoiler: The overall planting setup

Original scape was intended only with dwarf hairgrass 'Mini' (carpet), Rotala 'Bonsai' (mid-background), MC and 'Taiwan' Moss attached on the 'tree' wood hoping they would green up the center piece - especially the carpeting didn't work at all lol.

ARs, Guyana and Buce were added around 3rd month time came from my other experiments ha - I literally only had 2 stems of Guyana there; I attached Buce on the wood piece at the back; AR I just randomly inserted them at whatever gap.

The rest of the plants I added as part of the 'rescape' as the left side of the tank were more or less desert aha - caused by died off from the overgrown hornwort and I realized too late at that point...

Animals & Added Date
Neon x5 1/8/2022
Ass. Snails x3 (~4+) 30/8/2022
Neo RCS x7 (~70+) 30/8/2022
Amano x3 9/9/2022
Oto x5 12/9/2022

Spoiler: The stories of the animals

Not as exciting as the turtle tank but still rather memorable as I had to deal with an Ich outbreak when I first started the tank lol - I lost 1 Neon tetra (the smallest Neon rip) out of 6, the rest of them have been eating fat and recovered since. I simply raised the temp to 30-31C for about a week. For Otos, I actually lost 2 out of no reason - presumably just bad luck (I noticed some wound on them and then they died the day after) but also because the tank wasn't mature enough at that time.

Neos RCS seem to be happy in the tank - I only got 7 of them and they are now at 70+ (or maybe near 100, I stopped counting months ago ha) - other than the occasionally being bullied by the huge Amanos ha.

Assassin snails - I got them as I didn't want Ramshorns (but I ended up getting them for another project ha), they were basically stick to each other for months after I added them, saw a lot of eggs everywhere in the tank - after like 4 months we are seeing 1 or 2 babies, we do wonder how many babies they made...

Lightning Chihiros CII

Spoiler: Lightning schedule

Previously was using Aquael Leddy D&N - always been on 7-8hours (used to be 9-4/5pm).

Switched to Chihiros CII around 2nd month/mid Oct -
nowadays it is on 8hours 90% brightness: 10am-2pm, 4pm-8pm

Progression/Timelines with photos:

18/21Aug2022: Hallo Aquascaping!

Sep/Oct2022: I got the hornwort for free from my LFS - this devil plant looks kinda cool actually. All plants looked well even the MC was doing not too bad (no melting)... I was mad googling why the hell the dwarf hairgrass didn't spread at all - that's why I suspected the light wasn't strong enough and got a Chihiros CII (I measured the PARs via phone app). I use 2 filters since I was raising the temp to 30-31C to treat Ich as I worried if the oxygen level was not good enough - after successfully treating Ich, I figure it just might be good to keep using both to ensure better flow/oxygen.

Early Nov2022: Hornwort is going mad and I kinda like the crazy hair tree hair lol. Still no growth/spread sign of the hairgrass - and I didn't notice that the Taiwan moss were slowly dying...

Mid/Late Nov2022: The plants didn't look right to me so I pulled most of the hornwort out - probably they were taking all nutrients and lights (with all the overgrown floating dwarf water lettuce)...MC didn't look right and turning black...

Mid/Late Dec2022 - early Jan2023: I had to accept that most of the Taiwan moss around the mid zone of the tree wood were basically DEAD (black 'stem') and I cleaned them all out - also cleaned out whatever didn't grow well on the left side of the tank...

Mid Jan2023: Patiently waited for the new plants over christmas/new year to 'rescape' the left side of the tank - visually more pleasing now for sure... Accepted the fate that my dwarf hairgrass will never spread their runners, I added Marsilea that I have great success growing them in my other experiment New leaves of MC actually look nice now

Bonus shot 'My RC Tank': (Missus likes to call this the 'sushi tank')

Personal remark:
Overall I think this beginner tank looks quite nice if I don't zoom into the details :'(

Understandably I could have done A LOT of stuffs differently but it is what it is - I am really happy that I learnt so much from this tank and I feel good seeing the fat Neons and my lovely colony of RCS ha.

Part of the reasons I put so much details in the journal - I am hoping that maybe there are ways to save/improve the tank/plants at this stage. I will make a new post below for my fertilizing schedule etc with pictures of the bad leaves etc.

So this is 6months in for the tank - I just might dissemble the tank and start a new one around summer time. The top of the back glass panel actually chipped a little (doesn't impact the overall structure and I glued) so this tank has to go anyway (I will keep it as my emergency/QT tank).

My biggest regret to date for this tank: dwarf hairgrass just WON'T GROW in my tank - I just want a nice carpet without CO2... :'(

(I actually started a Dennerle 20L mid Jan - this one looks entirely different so far and I intend to house it with Chili Rasboras and Yellow Neons, I will write the journal soon )

 

[SirBuce]

Continue from my journal above - I would really welcome any advice/suggestion to improve the plants at this stage ha...

End of Jan/start of Feb photos:

The new leaves from the plants (Rotalas/MC/AR) seem to be ok but older stems/leaves are pretty much gone. The last pic is to show the GSA seems to grow less/slower at the level of the filters/water flow.

I have been very careful about dosing - I used to dose twice TSN a week for the tank until I pulled out the hornwort. After that I stopped fert for like 2 weeks just to 'reset' the tank with my water change.

After the 'rescape', I have tried dosing with:
1. TSN 3 days a week (before lights on), TPN 3 days a week (never both on same day) with 2-3 ml of Masterline K for 2 weeks
2. TSN 2 days a week (before lights on), TPN 2 days a week (never both on same day) with 2-3 ml of Masterline K for 2 weeks
My test results of P is never more than 0.4ppm, K was around 2-8ppm the day after dosing TSN - it goes up to around 16ppm (accumulated) and then I usually do a water change by then.
Hard to tell for the results again as new plants/leaves look fine but the old leaves are rotting away...

Recently I dosed for Easy-life Carbo (1-2ml a day) for 2 weeks (before lights on) - as I saw some potentially BBA on my MC so I worried for that. Understandably these commercial Carbo products are like some poison (snake oil) but I gave it a go anyway (after speaking with LFS who swore it is safe) - I am not too sure if I see any beneficial effects but sure I don't see any growth sign of BBA also. So yes, I suspected maybe the tank is low on P but then seeing this potential BBA is quite conflicting....

Is my live stock level ok for the tank?

Or simply, all my issues are caused by the bad sand - I have not tested SiO before. And so this tank is well cycled - I do tests frequently for the first 3 months and nowadays I test 1-2 times a month especially after water change (Ammonia, Nitrite always 0, Nitrate used to be near as well but since Jan it is like 20-40ppm (I assumed because I dosed fert).

GSA doesn't bother me much as I know it is beneficial for the shrimps - I just scratch them every 2-3 weeks (they are quite minor really I can barely see them).

Lights has always been on 7-8hours since I started the tank - currently it is 90% brightness: 10am-2pm, 4pm-8pm.

Any advice or wisdom to share for my RC tank? Many thanks folks

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

After the 'rescape', I have tried dosing with:
1. TSN 3 days a week (before lights on), TPN 3 days a week (never both on same day) with 2-3 ml of Masterline K for 2 weeks
2. TSN 2 days a week (before lights on), TPN 2 days a week (never both on same day) with 2-3 ml of Masterline K for 2 weeks
My test results of P is never more than 0.4ppm, K was around 2-8ppm the day after dosing TSN - it goes up to around 16ppm (accumulated) and then I usually do a water change by then.
Hard to tell for the results again as new plants/leaves look fine but the old leaves are rotting away..........Lights has always been on 7-8hours since I started the tank - currently it is 90% brightness: 10am-2pm, 4pm-8pm.

Because it is the older leaves the problem is one out of light, <"CO2"> and the <"mobile mineral nutrients">. I like a <"floating plant"> as <"a canary">, it takes light and CO2 <"out of the equation">. I'm pretty sure it isn't light.

Personally I would up the dose of <"Tropica Specialised Nutrition">, if you don't get an improvement, it is a <"missing nutrient">, rather than a matter of amounts.

I <"can't see any point"> in the <"Premium"> version, and personally I'm not keen on giving money to the participants in the <"World's most Expensive Water"> contest and would use a <"terrestrial plant fertiliser">.

Or simply, all my issues are caused by the bad sand - I have not tested SiO before.

It is definitely <"not the sand">, whatever the <"unscrupulous vendors"> of various products may suggest.

cheers Darrel

 

[MichaelJ]

What water are you using in the tank? Do you know what GH/KH? If tap, a water report perhaps?

Its hard for me to figure out how much Tropica Specialized you actually dose per week (ml's or pumps) 1 pump is 2 ml btw.

I agree with Darrel, unless you have a very particular reason not wanting to dose N and P (like if you use it as your source of micros only - although you do get K with it), Tropica Premium is pretty much pointless.

Carpets are notoriously hard to get going and keep without CO2... I tried and failed a couple of times (never tried while dosing Tropica Specialized though).

In any event, in one of my densely planted moderately stocked 150L low-tech tanks I dose 12 ml once every 11-12 days after 35% WC... I figure for 10 months now and have excellent plant health - easy plants, and also very soft and acidic water (RO).

and personally I'm not keen on giving money to the participants in the <"World's most Expensive Water"> contest and would use a <"terrestrial plant fertiliser">.

I agree. But I have decided to make an exception with Tropica Specialized, given the success I've had with it in one of my tanks, so I am OK with the $25-30 I have to spend every 18 months or so on a 750 ml bottle. I can hardly get a really good bottle of Cabernet for that price around here, and thats gone in a couple of hours... at most ... well, that was totally irrelevant...

Cheers,
Michael

 

[SirBuce]

@dw1305 @MichaelJ Oh Darrel and Michael - you have no idea how happy I am right now seeing your replies aha. I have been busy this week but I have been reading whatever relevant old posts in the past days during work time and I was thinking to make a help me thread/post tonight and I saw your replies (Is like I am queuing a long time in A&E to see the doctors 😂). Many thanks guys

Sorry yes, when I said per dose for TSN/TPN I meant 1 pump = 2mL.

I use local tap water (city center of Dublin, Ireland), I checked local water supplier report a couple months ago nothing really caught my attention (maybe I will have a quick look again later...). I tested the tap water many times and it has consistent readings Ammonia/Nitrite/Nitrate/P/K = 0, 1 dKH, 4dGH, TDS:70, pH ~7.0 (latest test was last weekend) - I thought the water is good enough so I have not gone for a small RO water kit (pretty affordable actually since I have been eyeing for one for future ha).

Hi all,

Because it is the older leaves the problem is one out of light, <"CO2"> and the <"mobile mineral nutrients">. I like a <"floating plant"> as <"a canary">, it takes light and CO2 <"out of the equation">. I'm pretty sure it isn't light.

Personally I would up the dose of <"Tropica Specialised Nutrition">, if you don't get an improvement, it is a <"missing nutrient">, rather than a matter of amounts.

I <"can't see any point"> in the <"Premium"> version, and personally I'm not keen on giving money to the participants in the <"World's most Expensive Water"> contest and would use a <"terrestrial plant fertiliser">.

It is definitely <"not the sand">, whatever the <"unscrupulous vendors"> of various products may suggest.

cheers Darrel

Cheers Darrel. Indeed it could be 'missing nutrient' rather than amount - I am rather afraid to overdose the fert lol (mainly because I am still rather new to the hobby). I started to dose K after I got P and K test kits in December - seeing the results I then realized maybe there has been a deficiency of K for months for the tank...

Because it is the older leaves the problem is one out of light, <"CO2"> and the <"mobile mineral nutrients">. I like a <"floating plant"> as <"a canary">, it takes light and CO2 <"out of the equation">. I'm pretty sure it isn't light.

I have experience with these dwarf water lettuce - they were actually quite small but since I changed the light to this Chihiros CII, they 'bloom' and became massive lol. Now that you mentioned - maybe their leaves are showing hints of some sort of deficiency? The 'healthy' ones are fresh green; some yellow+transparent ones I presume they are old leaves/dying; yellow+white are over-exposed to light? And some of these with green-ish dots (like shown pic below) - I never know if they are getting holes on them or they are algae spots?

So from rotala calculator (I used 25L on the safe side), I figure it is safe to dose 2mL TSN+2mL K (Masterline K says 1ppm per 1mL for 30L tank) for 3 days a week (and TPN every other day for 3 days a week as well); as I mentioned that
result has not been helping the leaves but I see good new growth of the MC (and my rescaped plants/moss are doing well).

I can see that I am very far away from EI dosage (I hope to stay with lean dosing if possible lol) -
Could you advise on how much TSN+K I should try to dose for my tank (as soon as the shrimps are safe - I know the neons are tough ha)?

Have you seen anyone's tank/plants come back from something like this? thanks again Darrel

What water are you using in the tank? Do you know what GH/KH? If tap, a water report perhaps?

Its hard for me to figure out how much Tropica Specialized you actually dose per week (ml's or pumps) 1 pump is 2 ml btw.

I agree with Darrel, unless you have a very particular reason not wanting to dose N and P (like if you use it as your source of micros only - although you do get K with it), Tropica Premium is pretty much pointless.

Carpets are notoriously hard to get going and keep without CO2... I tried and failed a couple of times (never tried while dosing Tropica Specialized though).

In any event, in one of my densely planted moderately stocked 150L low-tech tanks I dose 12 ml once every 11-12 days after 35% WC... I figure for 10 months now and have excellent plant health - easy plants, and also very soft and acidic water (RO).



I agree. But I have decided to make an exception with Tropica Specialized, given the success I've had with it in one of my tanks, so I am OK with the $25-30 I have to spend every 18 months or so on a 750 ml bottle. I can hardly get a really good bottle of Cabernet for that price around here, and thats gone in a couple of hours... at most ... well, that was totally irrelevant...

Cheers,
Michael

Cheers Michael! See above for my tap water info aha.

I have some water test results of this tank see below maybe could have helped for the detective work here...

Tank	Date	Time	NH3	NO2	NO3	P	K	pH	dKH	dGH	TDS
RC	13/12/2022	12pm	0	0	5	0.05	<2	7.2	3	7	138
RC	29/01/2023	2pm	0	0	40	0.2	16	7	1	8	170
RC	05/02/2023	2pm	0	0	20	0.4	n/a	6.1	n/a	n/a	188
RC	09/02/2023	12pm	n/a	n/a	n/a	0.4	n/a	6.3	n/a	n/a	212

RC tank is my most established tank (out of my 3 tanks) so I am not bothered to test it frequently nowadays - I test the water after I did a water change (usually once every 2-4 weeks). The sudden drop of pH to 6.1 was a shock to me (I think it was down to 5.5 when I did a quick test before I changed the water), I think it was because of the EasyLife Carbo I was dosing for 2 weeks straight (and also because of my low dKH?) - all animals look fine so I am glad. And the strangest thing is, I have not dose TSN since 5Feb and my P still reads the same 0.4ppm today 9Feb (I only dosed TPN once and 1mL of K - I thought I would let the P comes down first before I dose TSN again)...

unless you have a very particular reason not wanting to dose N and P (like if you use it as your source of micros only - although you do get K with it)

As I said to Darrel that I am rather afraid to overdose the fert lol - mainly because I am still rather new to the hobby, I am also half hoping maybe my stock level can provide enough N/P. How much N/P is safe for my 25-30L tank do you figure?

For your 150L tank with 12mL (6pumps) TSN every ~2weeks - if I copied that it would be 30L tank with 2.4mL (1 pump ish) every ~2weeks yes? (I already dosed higher than that ha)

Many thanks Michael as well

 

[SirBuce]

I should better off getting a Macro only fert for my next purchase would you say?

I still have nearly a full bottle of TPN 300mL, 30% left of TSN 300mL, a bottle of K 500mL. I don't know where is that tracker for cost of ferts I see often lol (not sure how do I get them in IFC-fert calculator?). I wish we can get Thrive here as easy as US folks. Anyone with good experience from Masterline Macro product (I might get it since the price is alright when there is a discount)?

Ultimately I would like to avoid the mistakes I made for my RC tank here to avoid potential issue in my new/3rd tank (it's been nearly a month and this time with proper aquasoil layer - so far so good - I will prob write the journal this weekend ha).

 

[MichaelJ]

Hi @Busesir,

0, 1 dKH, 4dGH, TDS:70, pH ~7.0 (latest test was last weekend) - I thought the water is good enough so I have not gone for a small RO water kit (pretty affordable actually since I have been eyeing for one for future ha).

That looks like perfect tap water - One thing I am wondering about is your Magnesium levels - large part of the UK got low levels of Mg in the tap water due to the geology. I do not know if this applies to Ireland as well - I suspect so - but I am sure Darrel/@dw1305 will know.

Moreover, If your dGH is almost all from Calcium your cherry shrimps will definitely appreciate the extra Magnesium as well.

So from rotala calculator (I used 25L on the safe side), I figure it is safe to dose 2mL TSN+2mL K (Masterline K says 1ppm per 1mL for 30L tank) for 3 days a week (and TPN every other day for 3 days a week as well); as I mentioned that
result has not been helping the leaves but I see good new growth of the MC (and my rescaped plants/moss are doing well).
View attachment 201004

4-6 ml per week of Tropica Specialized should really be sufficient for a 30 L tank (btw. we almost always go by the gross volume of the tank and don't try to compensate for gravel, hardscape and all that... makes life simpler for everyone).

I do not think you need the extra Potassium (K)... any particular reason your adding it? I'd be much more worried about Magnesium as mentioned above - if your tap water is almost depleted of Mg your only getting the additional 2 x 0.3 ppm from Tropica Specialized.

And the strangest thing is, I have not dose TSN since 5Feb and my P still reads the same 0.4ppm today 9Feb (I only dosed TPN once and 1mL of K - I thought I would let the P comes down first before I dose TSN again)...

Thats probably from organic waste. 0.4 ppm you say.... I wouldn't worry about it.

For your 150L tank with 12mL (6pumps) TSN every ~2weeks - if I copied that it would be 30L tank with 2.4mL (1 pump ish) every ~2weeks yes? (I already dosed higher than that ha)

I am personally not recommending that you or anyone else "copy" this dosing regime as there are quite a few strings attached such as very soft acidic water, low'ish temperature and mature substrate - I consider it somewhat experimental, at least for the time being.

What I do recommend however, is to follow the dosing instruction on the Tropica Specialized bottle. With a possible addition of Magnesium this should suffice for all Macros and Micros needs in your low-tech tank, but you can add a bit more, like right after a water change - also there is no need to dose before the light comes on - just dose during the photoperiod when the plants are most susceptible to uptake.

Cheers,
Michael

 

[SirBuce]

@MichaelJ cheers for the tips/rationale there - I am learning a lot here ha.

That looks like perfect tap water - One thing I am wondering about is your Magnesium levels - large part of the UK got low levels of Mg in the tap water due to the geology. I do not know if this applies to Ireland as well - I suspect so - but I am sure Darrel/@dw1305 will know.

I just checked the water report of my area, see below screenshots:

Rather useless they don't show limit for each of them but I know Fe's limit is 200ug/L by using the detailed report (Your Drinking Water Quality Results in detail), or you could see the 200ug/L on page3 for 1 result out of limit.

So they don't test for Mg - I looked up Ammonium/Nitrate/Nitrate/Boron/Mn/Cu as well - basically together with Fe my tap water has near 0 for all of them. Interestingly they tested Chloride at 13mg/L (limit 250mg/L).

Moreover, If your dGH is almost all from Calcium your cherry shrimps will definitely appreciate the extra Magnesium as well.

Yes good guess there, I make sure there is small piece of cuttlebone in the tank all the time - so far I have no molting issue (not that I have seen anyway lol). I actually have some Ca:Mg powder around but never used (discounted price - I figure I might go for RO water kit at some point lol), I will test my TDS tomorrow and then dose small amount.

4-6 ml per week of Tropica Specialized should really be sufficient for a 30 L tank (btw. we almost always go by the gross volume of the tank and don't try to compensate for gravel, hardscape and all that... makes life simpler for everyone).

I do not think you need the extra Potassium (K)... any particular reason your adding it? I'd be much more worried about Magnesium as mentioned above - if your tap water is almost depleted of Mg your only getting the additional 2 x 0.3 ppm from Tropica Specialized.

Good to know - and thanks for the sanity check for the 4-6ml of TSN per week should be sufficient for a 30L tank.

For the extra K - I think I looked up alot of sites/info and came to conclusion that maybe K is what the tank is missing - since I (want to) believe that the waste etc provide enough N/P - dosing K seems like a logical thing to try out ha...

like this site (i bookmarked) mentions briefly on K deficiency seems to align with my symptoms:

Deficiency symptoms in aquatic plants - | Aquasabi

Correctly interpret growth damage

www.aquasabi.com

and I think I also try to mirror the TNC complete weekly dosage for 30L tank - K is the one I need to add extra for:

What I do recommend however, is to follow the dosing instruction on the Tropica Specialized bottle. With a possible addition of Magnesium this should suffice for all Macros and Micros needs in your low-tech tank, but you can add a bit more, like right after a water change - also there is no need to dose before the light comes on - just dose during the photoperiod when the plants are most susceptible to uptake.

Sure, I will go back to 6-8mL of TSN per week - and for the suspected deficiency in Mg/Micros, what do you say if I use the TPN (i.e. World's most expensive water aha) to make up for that?

What is the ppm of Mg (for my 30L tank) do you reckon I should try it out? (so like 6-8mL TSN already gives 0.8-1ppm per week)

Thats probably from organic waste. 0.4 ppm you say.... I wouldn't worry about it.

You could be right...but 0.4ppm is considered 'high' from my results tested for the tank ha. In fact, it was always barely visible (0-0.05/0.1) before I started to dose 6-8mL TSN per week.

Also, I thought P is harmful to the animals if tested above 0.5ppm (in water column) - is this a general consensus or planted tank could go higher (how high?). I know K can be 'overdosed' to 30+ppm or even higher - what about the Micros? So many conflicting info on sites when I tried to look it up lol.

Or I might as well 'go EI' with my TSN - which is like 4mL a day...should I try that out for a week and then water change on day7?

Cheers Michael!

 

[MichaelJ]

I just checked the water report

Water report: it looks like just number of times they tested and not the acutual measurement results ! Also beats me why it misses Mg and Ca - thats the ones we often want to know about

For the extra K - I think I looked up alot of sites/info and came to conclusion that maybe K is what the tank is missing

Cant be ruled out. Adding a couple of ppm's wont hurt either - I do not know the Masterline K product so I cant tell you how much a couple of ppm amounts to in terms of ml dosing for your 30L tank... it may be what your dosing already.

What is the ppm of Mg (for my 30L tank) do you reckon I should try it out? (so like 6-8mL TSN already gives 0.8-1ppm per week)

I actually have some Ca:Mg powder around but never used

Assuming your Mg levels are very low (which we do not know for sure), you could get some Food grade Epsom Salt (Magnesium Sulphate / MgSO4) and dose a bit of that when you do your WC. I'd say target your WC water at 5 ppm. (you will get an additional ~0.8 ppm from Tropica Specialized and probably a little bit from your tap). So if your changing 50% Weekly, just add a smidge under a 1 gram - thats two pinches - with the WC water - that will eventually even out to be around 5 ppm.

- I figure I might go for RO water kit at some point

From what I gather in terms of your tap water parameters you measure, I do not think that is necessary. Personally, I would be very happy having soft tap water (4GH/1KH) like what your having.

Also, I thought P is harmful to the animals if tested above 0.5ppm (in water column) - is this a general consensus or planted tank could go higher (how high?). I know K can be 'overdosed' to 30+ppm or even higher -

Don't worry about Phosphorous (P) at this level. In general, you have to reach pretty exorbitant levels of NPK before it gets into the danger zone for shrimps. That said, there are no reason to have more than needed. Shrimps prefer lower TDS to support their osmotic regulation so thats a good argument for not adding more fertilizers than needed - ideally keep TDS around 100-150 ppm 200-300 uS/cm - even lower than 100 ppm is fine as well, but most often hard to obtain in a planted tank with straight tap water.

what about the Micros? So many conflicting info on sites when I tried to look it up lol.

The main concern with Shrimps are Copper (Cu) and Nickel (Ni). (there are no Ni in Tropica Specialized btw.) and your tap levels are fine so you will be fine with what you dose from Tropica Specialized on top of that.

Cheers,
Michael

 

[SirBuce]

Really appreciate the advice Michael! I will get some Epsom salt next week. In the meantime I will use add a scoop of this Ca:Mg powder (specialized for shrimps) to the BacterAE I feed the shrimps every 2-3 days - definitely feel more confident knowing my tap water better now aha.

I did WC and started my next experiment - I am going to dose (1 pump = 2mL) 4 days a week for TSN and TPN (make use of whatever I have on hands at the moment ha).
I grabbed the EI data for 30L and try to match it (at least I know the EI dosage 'should be safe') ha - and I will do a weekly WC - let's see for any improvement for the next 2-4 weeks.

(it is a tracker that i use to compare for different ferts/contents - I also use it for cost calculation - not that presentable aha but should make sense here)

So my ferts selection is rather limited, either Tropica or Masterline (I can get Aqua Rebell/Seachem/JBL/Oase too but they are so shockingly bad for their price and contents). I might do a purchase this month or next month (always carefully planning ha - cost/prices of everything in Ireland is insane so I prefer to get my stuff from Europe continent - except for live stock). It is actually a shame I could not get TNC Complete from UK - it is a good product from the looks of it.

After looking the contents of the ferts in the past 2 days, I think I understand TSN/TPN and MasterLine II (NPK+Mg) better for their pricing/market now. Basically indeed TSN is an 'allrounder' fert, quite fairly priced and well designed for its content (still expensive for 11-13euro for 300mL); TPN has its niche but however it should be wayyy significantly lower price for its use really; the ML II is the only product from the company that actually worth the ok price (like 10-13euro for 500mL) as it has such a low N content that could be strategic for the tanks with already good bioload (i.e. if TSN causes algae issues then this ML II could be nice).

I will likely use TSN for my low bioload tank (my third tank - journal coming up soon ha), and MLII for my high bioload turtle tank; will see what i will do for RC tank once it 'recovered'.

(I shared a comparison of MLII content vs Tropica vs EI (30L) ha - if all works well I might share this to other subforum.)

 

[SirBuce]

Have been wanting to update for this tank but keep slacking off ha - I am actually quite glad it is getting better!

So since my last post, I went 'EI' treatment for the tank by using TSN+TPN as I am pretty sure we have some sort of deficiency going on (thanks again michael and darrel @dw1305 @MichaelJ for the discussion above).

The idea is that I will give high dose of fert to 'catch up' with the deficiency (with a weekly WC) - and take it from there really.

For reference, EI dosage for 30L tank is:

12-19 Feb week I dosed 2ml TSN+TPN for 5 days:
(I planned to dose for 4 days but I dosed 12Feb Sunday so I was like I'll stick to the plan...)

• I remember I saw 1 dead shrimp on the Friday and I did a WC that evening (I was planning to do WC on Saturday but I would rather not risk it).
• Definitely worried me for a bit but all livestock went on days as usual, so it could be an individual incident.
• 10 ml TSN+TPN is actually higher than EI, see surplus of TSN+TPN dosed vs EI:

20-26 Feb week I dosed 2ml TSN+TPN for 3 days:
As planned, I reduced dosage down to 3 days a week

• I saw 1 dead shrimp on the Thursday/Friday and I did a WC that evening - again worried me for a bit but no more casualty as far as I concern (since then).
• This was the second week of giving 'EI' treatment and I was honestly surprised to see the colour of plants popped, the greens definitely looked greener than before!
• The moss are growing better for sure, Monte Carlo (MC) same, and I see some pearling on the Rotalas and Hydrocotyle Japan.

27Feb - 05Mar week my dosage is as below for 3 days:

• I am basically back to lean dosing per se, the plants look greener and healthier for sure!
• No more casualty was observed since the week before - and I moved the 7 guppy/endler to the tank (from my SirBuce's Yellow Moss Tank (20L))
• Interesting observation from past few days: I see the come back of green spot algae on glass and some very tiny BBA at the old hairgrass and 1 dot on the MC.

I will probably up the dosage again next week like 8ml TSN + 4ml TPN, and liquid carbon. I have gotten some MasterLine ferts as well that I might switch to them and/or try to match with the TSN+TPN combo and see it how it goes.

I think I have gained back some confidence from the past few weeks of experiment - the overall setup wasn't bad at all (the choice of plants etc), but the substrate system/setup I am sure that it became the bottle neck to the overall growth of plants. I am not even sure if I am bothered to insert some root tabs at this stage - why prolong the inevitable to dismantle the tank when we are near 1 year mark (that would be around Aug2023). I also realized that in order for the shrimps to thrive, the tank should always be 'dirty' (with algae etc) so the dirtiness cannot be avoided i.e. how to keep the plants healthy and also maintaining a good level of algae? I just might not think about too much of it and focus what I want (a nice scape with healthy plants) since I don't really want to a shrimp breeder etc. I am grateful of everything I learnt from this first experiment tank to help to setup my next tank.

I actually got a new 30L white glass Dennerle tank from the Aquarium's day aha - I am now eyeing for the right time to get a compact cannister filter that will go with the setup (I am so impressed by Oase Biomaster Thermo 250 - I might just get their smaller version with heater again). And...I just might get a CO2 setup next - I am just obsessed to get my own carpet in the next setup lol (I think the FZONE one with citric acid+sodium bicarbonate might the best practical setup at the moment).

 

[SirBuce]

The tank has been officially renamed to "RC Jungle" . It is honestly a surprise to myself that I am getting more fond of the tank due to the more prominent jungle look since late April.

The overall 'blooming' of the jungle likely is contributed by a couple of factors:

• I 'fixed' (or somehow alleviated) the severe deficiency of nutrients by doing what I did back in March (again thanks Michael and Darrel for that ha).
• I added more livestock to the tank (so the tank was understocked previously...) - mainly CPDs from my other tank (SirBuce's Yellow Moss Tank (20L))
• The tank is mature enough at this stage the organic matter/waste went into the substrate level and the plants are able to utilize them...
• I am a fan now on these Chihiros flagship light my god after this little dip trying a Chihiros WRGB Slim 30 - I think this range of products definitely is best for bang for bucks for sure in the current market.
• I have been dosing MasterLine I+II twice a week (1ml each every time, usually on Monday and Thursday) and WC once a week (about 10-20% WC usually on Saturday). I gave a dose of Masterline P or K (1ml) every 2-3 weeks (just in case we have a deficiency builds up), and also 1ml of Carbo after WC (mainly hoping it helps the tank by suppressing the algae a bit).

I was very much anticipating to decommission the tank around June/July but ya now I will keep it around for a little longer. I am in love with the Jungle look lately.
The reality is that the soil/foundation of this tank is still lacking of something that the old leaves/lower end of the stems are still not doing good - I feel rather sad to see some of the plants are growing smaller (dwarf size leave/stem etc).

I already have my new tank up and running 😎 (will do the write up tomorrow ha).
So ya I will decommission this RC Jungle likely around August/September (not a bad thing to keep a well matured tank around) - gradually transferring the livestock to the new tank and dissembling the plants/hardscape.

Brief updates and pictures below

Trimmed and replanted from early April til early May:
(added a couple of Hygrophila polysperma 'Rosanervig' - I got the plant mainly for emerged experiment in my My Turtle Vivarium with Buce (98L) ha)

And the now RC Jungle!

 

[SirBuce]

It's been awhile I talk about this tank aha - I will do an update this week.

Meanwhile some sneak peek ha.

(The moss/terrarium experiment was mentioned in my SirBuce's Yellow Moss Tank (20L) - the moss mostly didnt make it except those near the ground ha...)

(His name is John Wick! A gift from a local hobbyist friend🥰)

 

[SirBuce]

Literally couldn't go near my desktop for dayss so ahh I am determined to do some updates this weekend lol. So ya since the last update from May23:

Jun-Jul-Aug23
1) I have moved most of the 'good' plants to the SirBuce's Dutch Sunset (55L) (well, just a few good Ludwigia Super Mini Red and Guyana really ha)
2) Gave the Moss 'tree' a massive trim, and viola - oh god this has to be the ugliest phase of this tank to date...


3) Accidentally this became a backup/nursing/shrimp breeding tank as I was thinking to decommission it once SirBuce's Dutch Sunset (55L) is up and running, but we were like "oh well we can just keep the culled RC neos here for the time being" (managed to sell/trade away some of them with the local hobbyists - not bad at all ha).


4) I got some Riccia fluitans/floating crystalwort (intended for the My Turtle Vivarium with Buce (98L), I am going to make an update on the vivarium soon....) so I stick some of the remaining bits at the top of the 'tree' and it has been growing well since. Technically we have a floating carpet going on in the tank lol


5) And ohya I got some Fissidens sp. "Mallorca" from LFS and I am growing it more and see where do I stick them to.....but the growth speed is like rather slow aha


Sep23
1) Added Betta buddy! John Wick was gifted by a local hobbyist friend - pretty random stuff as I didn't expect to get a Betta anytime soon aha.
He is like wearing a metalic/teal tuxedo (like one of John Wick's movie poster?) with blood splat on his face - the missus was the genius who came up with the name and we all love it aha.

2) As I was saying that the tank has been our backup/nursing/shrimp breeding tank for awhile now, and it has a new function also - temporary storage for plants that will go into its next iteration...
I got a good amount of various types of Java ferns (good summer sales ha) - and look at that latest addition of Nymphaea lotus is taking over the tank
I also got some Otos just this week - and all of them are doing well here - seriously I am loving having a mature tank that I can do so much with it ha.

3) Decided to go with a Nature style setup in this Dennerle 30L cube that I am going to call it RC Jungle ver2!
I am going to use the same 'tree' and then do a epiphytes focused build (Java ferns, Buces, and Hygrophila pinnatifida), with white sand surrounding an island with the tree around the center.
The new canvas is ready....

 

[SirBuce]

A small update that after trip to a LFS (not too local this one ha, about 30mins away) scoring some hardscape materials (with a great price), I think I just might leave the 'tree' in the RC jungle alone, since we are keeping this tank running as a nursery tank going forward.

So ya I will open a new journal for the upcoming NA style 30L cube aha, playing around with the woods:

From the weekend:
'Overview look' beside SirBuce's Dutch Sunset (55L)


Last night:
They look like a 'crown'? (think Nazgul)


Eventually I think I like the draft from weekend more aha:

The space within the front piece is perfect for putting in moss or epiphytes, will angle the pieces appropriate for easier maintenance...

I am going to play around with the red lava rock (as the base) later this week.