Ed Seeley
Member
I'm assuming the Nanochromis transvestitus in your EI article are yours? How long have you had them and any luck breeding them? (or keeping them from killing each other actually!) What size tank are they in?
Nanochromis transvestitus
- Thread starter Ed Seeley
- Start date
Re: EI DOSING USING DRY SALTS
Hope it proves useful. Ed, I've had 2 pairs of the Nanochromis in that same 6 foot tank for a month or so and I only ever catch a glimpse when one or more of them get chased from the undergrowth by a peer. It was sheer dumb luck that I was even able to catch those two out in the open to snap the photo when I happened to have the camera in hand looking for shots of the stelleta. Two seconds later they both disappeared. They appear to be extremely aggressive but I reckon there is enough room for the losers to get away. It would be like the holy grail if I could get a pair to breed but as you know I only use tap with a GH of 12 or so and a TDS that ranges from 275ppm at water change to about 350ppm by weeks end due to the dosing. I figure I'm way out of range because from what I've read they really like super-soft and super-acid for breeding. Any advice would be appreciated mate.
Cheers,
Hope it proves useful. Ed, I've had 2 pairs of the Nanochromis in that same 6 foot tank for a month or so and I only ever catch a glimpse when one or more of them get chased from the undergrowth by a peer. It was sheer dumb luck that I was even able to catch those two out in the open to snap the photo when I happened to have the camera in hand looking for shots of the stelleta. Two seconds later they both disappeared. They appear to be extremely aggressive but I reckon there is enough room for the losers to get away. It would be like the holy grail if I could get a pair to breed but as you know I only use tap with a GH of 12 or so and a TDS that ranges from 275ppm at water change to about 350ppm by weeks end due to the dosing. I figure I'm way out of range because from what I've read they really like super-soft and super-acid for breeding. Any advice would be appreciated mate.
Cheers,
Ed Seeley
Member
Re: EI DOSING USING DRY SALTS
You're dead right in your thinking on the Nanochromis aggression. My pair a few years ago proved to be homicidal little maniacs! The female beat up the male so badly I thought he was going to die, but the next morning he was still hanging on and had taken it out on the female who was dead. He didn't last more than a couple of days! I know a number of other people, experienced dwarf breeders, who have had very similar experiences so you're doing well!
And you're dead right about the water they come from too. They're endemic to Lac Mai-ndombe in the Democratic Republic of Congo (If it's still called that!). This is part of the Congo drainage system. The lake is huge but shallow and the sandy base is covered in most areas in a thick layer of decomposing plants. This gives black, tannin stained water, apparently the colour of very strong black tea, with undetectable levels of hardness and a pH of 4 to 4.5! Time to crack out the RO unit if you want them to breed!!!!
At least they look very healthy and you're one up on most people who keep them! When I get a six foot plus tank they are very near the top of the list to breed!
You're dead right in your thinking on the Nanochromis aggression. My pair a few years ago proved to be homicidal little maniacs! The female beat up the male so badly I thought he was going to die, but the next morning he was still hanging on and had taken it out on the female who was dead. He didn't last more than a couple of days! I know a number of other people, experienced dwarf breeders, who have had very similar experiences so you're doing well!
And you're dead right about the water they come from too. They're endemic to Lac Mai-ndombe in the Democratic Republic of Congo (If it's still called that!). This is part of the Congo drainage system. The lake is huge but shallow and the sandy base is covered in most areas in a thick layer of decomposing plants. This gives black, tannin stained water, apparently the colour of very strong black tea, with undetectable levels of hardness and a pH of 4 to 4.5! Time to crack out the RO unit if you want them to breed!!!!
At least they look very healthy and you're one up on most people who keep them! When I get a six foot plus tank they are very near the top of the list to breed!
Re: EI DOSING USING DRY SALTS
There must be some upper TDS limit that would give me a fighting chance, no? That would complicate water change day by a factor of 10!
Cheers,
I'm seriously tempted mate! But zero GH?eds said:Time to crack out the RO unit if you want them to breed!!!!
There must be some upper TDS limit that would give me a fighting chance, no? That would complicate water change day by a factor of 10! Cheers,
Ed Seeley
Member
Re: EI DOSING USING DRY SALTS
I'll do some digging to work out a possible upper range. It has been bred in captivity. I'll also try and split this bit into a new thread in the fish section too so we don't clutter up your article thread, ok?
I'll do some digging to work out a possible upper range. It has been bred in captivity. I'll also try and split this bit into a new thread in the fish section too so we don't clutter up your article thread, ok?
Ed Seeley
Member
Apparently you can get away with a GH of about 2 but unless the pH is below 5.5 they don't breed successfully! Seems like pure RO water and peat in the filter is the only way! Maybe you might be better to set up a smaller breeding tank, get the female in breeding condition and then put a pair in there temporarily? As soon as they spawn you could move the male back to the main tank and keep your fingers crossed! A lot of hassle though!
I would of thought with pure RO one would be able to drive to that pH easily with CO2. Wouldn't adding peat effectively increase TDS? Geesz, unreal levels of complication ...
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Ed Seeley
Member
I really think that CO2 induced pH changes are very different to those caused by other dissolved substances, after all a swing of pH when you turn CO2 off or on doesn't seem to effect the fish at all. I wouldn't want to try adding enough humic acid (or otherwise) to induce a 1 degree pH swing in an hour or so!
I always assumed adding anything would increase the TDS, but apparently the use of certain acids, such as those liberated by peat actually lowers them; I don't understand this completely, yet - but I'm working on it!
My breeding tanks are pure RO water and with peat a pH of 5.5 isn't too hard to maintain. I think the main area for extra complications (especially for you) could be the TDS (if that is critical) as I have found that one thing that really ups the TDS is adding dry fertilisers! The TDS in my cube with killis in went from a TDS of 80 (when just using RO water and a small amount of RO Right) to over 350 when doing EI with over 50% weekly water changes! I'm going to find out the hard way when the new fish for my Rio arrive - I have 4 wild Biotoecus sp.'Tapajos' arriving next week and they need very, very low TDS to breed successfully. If they are happy with the ferts then I think the Nanochromis should be fine.
I always assumed adding anything would increase the TDS, but apparently the use of certain acids, such as those liberated by peat actually lowers them; I don't understand this completely, yet - but I'm working on it!
My breeding tanks are pure RO water and with peat a pH of 5.5 isn't too hard to maintain. I think the main area for extra complications (especially for you) could be the TDS (if that is critical) as I have found that one thing that really ups the TDS is adding dry fertilisers! The TDS in my cube with killis in went from a TDS of 80 (when just using RO water and a small amount of RO Right) to over 350 when doing EI with over 50% weekly water changes! I'm going to find out the hard way when the new fish for my Rio arrive - I have 4 wild Biotoecus sp.'Tapajos' arriving next week and they need very, very low TDS to breed successfully. If they are happy with the ferts then I think the Nanochromis should be fine.
Yes, the powders really do drive the TDS through the roof. Driving the pH using CO2 was never a problem for me with the more common Apistogrammas. They bred in this tank without the use of peat. It seems inconceivable to me that peat lowers TDS but if it works I'd have to give it a try.
I'll definitely be interested in how you get on with the Tapajos.
Cheers,
I'll definitely be interested in how you get on with the Tapajos.
Cheers,
Ed Seeley
Member
So will I! The guy I'm getting them off bred Biotoecus and he sent me a couple of articles as there's not much info on these guys. Part of it got my attention, "The water in these blackwater habitats is extremely soft and acidic with a pH value of between 4.5 and 5.5 and a conductivity nearly always less than 30 μS. Temperature fluctuates seasonally but is always relatively warm and in the region of 84 °F." Other bits from it show that the water values at every collection point had GH and KH at less than 1 degree.ceg4048 said:I'll definitely be interested in how you get on with the Tapajos.
He reckons my tank water will be fine for keeping them, I'll just probably need to alter it for breeding. Or move a pair out to a breeding tank I suppose.
beeky
Member
Interesting stuff.
Although live plants are always considered to make fish feel more at home, I've read that in nature many areas have no plants due to the blackwater lowering light levels too much and from water you're saying, the very low nutrients/salts in the water is maybe another factor.
Is it possible that peat adsorbs salts from the water? Does adding tannins/tannic acid produce a different effect to adding peat?
Although live plants are always considered to make fish feel more at home, I've read that in nature many areas have no plants due to the blackwater lowering light levels too much and from water you're saying, the very low nutrients/salts in the water is maybe another factor.
Is it possible that peat adsorbs salts from the water? Does adding tannins/tannic acid produce a different effect to adding peat?
