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New scape, Ph profile

Carpman

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I have finally got the new scape set up and it had its first day running today.
My setup is Eheim Pro 4+ 350 with twin jet nozzles, Hydor Koralia nano 2200 to help with flow, all 3 outlets are pointing towards the front at approx 1/3rds.
Co² coming via Fe with Qanvee inline.
Lighting profile https://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/mountain-range.55755/page-4#post-543719
I did do a ph profile (notes in pic using ph pen). 20181202_205356[1].jpg I had a very pale blue/green at approx 15bps. Tank was fizzing :crazy: see pic20181202_133924.jpg

Base (fresh only flooded last night) water Co² had not been on yet, PH was 6.56
Lights at max temporary 70% at 14.00, PH 6.27

Correct me if I'm wrong, Using the above numbers I'm only getting a .3 of a drop:thumbdown:. Now my options are to either increase the BPS or shift time to 3hrs pre light.

Which is my better option?
 

Carpman

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I took a glass of water last night for base measurement today and I was shocked a ph 7.5. So which way now because this gives drop of 1.25 but DC in green/blue (I am new to dc with the 4dkh)
 

Carpman

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I would run a airstone after lights out and see what the pH does. Your drop seems to take (to) long. but measure a few days.

That exactly what I was thinking, the pump that I had set up is knackered (not enough air to power curtain) so new pump ordered.

Checked glass before bed ph was 6.64 about an hour after taking sample.

Random reading today tank 06.30, ph 6.8 Glass ph 7.5.
Tank 09.30, ph 6.90. Glass ph 7.45.
Tank 10.10, ph 6.80. Circulation pump on at 10.00.
Tank12.55, ph 6.46. Co² came on at 12.00 @ 15bps
Tank 13.30, ph 6.38.
Tank 14.00, ph 6.35. Lights on
Tank 14.20, ph 6.31.
Tank 16.30, ph 6.23. Lights @70% since 15.00
Tank 17.00, ph 6.22.
Tank 17.30, ph 6.22.
Tank 18.30, ph 6.20

16.15, glass sample ph 7.75.

16.30, Drop checker light green/ yellow positioned 2/3rds of the way up the front, now moved down to 1/3rd up front.
20181203_163659.jpg 20181203_171433.jpg
 
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ceg4048

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That exactly what I was thinking, the pump that I had set up is knackered (not enough air to power curtain) so new pump ordered.

Checked glass before bed ph was 6.64 about an hour after taking sample.

Random reading today tank 06.30, ph 6.8 Glass ph 7.5.
tank 09.30, ph 6.90. Glass ph 7.45.
tank 10.10, ph 6.80. circulation pump on at 10.00
Hello,
I think you're getting wrapped around the axle a bit.
The first step is to determine what the natural pH of the tank is.
Instead of doing random checks, take a sample from the tank and just let it sit for an hour or so.
You want to make sure there is no extra CO2 in the sample. You can shake it to get as much of it out.
Whatever value is measured becomes your reference pH. Subtract 1 from this number and that will be your target.
Also, if your thank has natural wood, and as it ages, the natural pH of the water will change. If you have rocks which contain chalk, this will also dissolve in the water and will affect the pH. It's a good idea, as time goes on, to recheck the natural pH of the tank so that you can establish an accurate reference.

The water will almost always retain CO2 overnight. That is why the DC will often show a dark green or sometimes even a light green.
As Edvert mentions, this can sometimes be a problem which may require running an airstone overnight, but I would not really worry too much about that right now.

Regardless if the DC shows a green, your target pH will not have changed. It just means that the target pH will be easier to reach and that you won't have to inject as much gas. If you use an airstone and deplete the residual CO2, then your injection rate will be affected because of the depletion caused by the airstone.

Different tanks have different depletion rates simply by virtue of how the water moves through the tank, filter and tubing. Open top tanks may deplete the gas faster than tanks with hoods. Any form of turbulence will tend to deplete the gas faster.

Again, this is not something you should focus on at the moment. Fix your first problem by finding the right injection rate and finding how much time prior to lights on you need to turn the gas on so that you achieve the 1 unit drop by lights on and so that the ph does not fall too low afterwards to endanger the fish. Monitor the color of the DC during gas on time primarily for the health of the fish.

Cheers,
 

Carpman

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@Zeus. @Edvet latest figures above!
The glass sample has degassed for about 20hrs giving a Ph 7.75
sunrise starts at 14.00 - 15.00 max 70% luminosity, (split the difference) Ph 6.27

Total drop 1.5 points

Cross referenced with drop checker @ 16.30 yellow/green. I will keep moving DC around the tank to check for flow issues.

Waiting to see if any change in DC now I have moved lower in tank.

@ceg4048 It was only random because I was in and out today. I was writing the above as you replied.
 
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Zeus.

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Mine gets a pH drop of about 1.5 and DC is light green/yellow but like Clive says your entering to caution zone for livestock.
It's a case of repeat repeat repeat the profile.
Mine is made easier by having twin injectors a pH controller and a PLC as I can vary the injection rate for from CO2 on till CO2 off via my gadjets.
I do find that after a WC that the base line pH is lower pH than rest of week and it takes less time to get to target pH due to the dissolved CO2 in tap water. Plus longer to hit target pH with glass lids/covers off as Clive surgesting also.
 

Carpman

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I ran my air pump and stone last night for 3 hrs, pump is not great and is getting replaced tomorrow with ehiem 400. The resulting effect was a minimal reduction increasing Ph to 6.7, As my base ph is 7.7 have I actually achieved my needed 1 point drop pre lighting. My drop checker looks to be a light green (its dark in tank) and I have reduced Co² output a touch to about 10bps (will check when its running later).
 

Carpman

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I recieved my new pump yesterday and ran it for 9hrs giving me a reduction of .7 (ph 6.30 - 7.05), Drop checker still green even with the reduction. Bubble rate now changed to 8 bps, will do new profile to see how that runs now.

Correct me if I'm wrong, I only need a drop of about .3 to make the 1 point drop from 7.75 and then a steady ph through the photo period. Obviously keeping an eye on DC aswell.
 

Carpman

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After running new pump(Eheim 400 approx 200 ltr's per hr using only 1 output) last night for 9hrs via 10" diffuser I got a PH from 6.30 - 7.05, so tank is proving to be very hard to degas.
todays intermittent tests
06.30 ph 7.05
09.00 ph 6.95
0930 ph 6.90 power head on
12.00 Co2 on
14.30 ph 6.40 sunrise started 14 -1500, lighting at 70% @1500
16.00 ph 6.30
19.30 ph 6.28
20.30 ph 6.35 Co2 off at 20.00
21.00 Lights off
21.30 ph 6.50
23.00 ph 6.70
 

Zeus.

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Getting the [CO2] right for the photo period is tricky To very hard and it is very tank dependant IMO. But repeating the pH profile again and again is the best way forward IMO/IME
The colour you take the DC to is up to you OFC I have had mine clear at times with fish gasping at the surface for a short while
 

Carpman

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I have been testing again today but not managed to do a full profile. I will post it later.
I also took another sample last night for baseline measurement.

I must be getting the recommended 1 point drop though, if my baseline is between 7.5 -7.7 (taken from samples that have degassed) at lighting period I'm getting 6.4-6.3 ish then stable till lights out.
Drop checker is green all the time even first thing in the morning 06.00 after running 10" air curtain for 9hrs.
 

Carpman

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My latest readings to date in pic. I have just started a comprehensive test of the flow using 3 drop checkers, I have marked the 2 back/sides and the front in 3 equaly spaced positions (9 horizontal total) using the 3 DC's vertically top mid low should give me a good idea of my Co² distrubution. With the major flow being controlled in the centre by the new powerhead set to stage 2/8 (2000ltrs per hr ISH guessing can be adjusted to 8000ltrs per hr) but definatley more power than I had with Koralia nano 2200 which is supposed to be 2000ltr per hr. I'm trusting that I have got a good flow in the center but I will be trying to figure a way to test it.

20181220_220728.jpg

20181217_194020.jpg
 

Edvet

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I would stil try to improve dissolving the CO2, ( this is ofcourse lightlevel dependant, less light=less CO2 needed) Lowest pH seems to be 3-3,5 hours after CO2 on, that shouldn't take so long, try to get that to 1 hour.:oops:
 

Carpman

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I would stil try to improve dissolving the CO2, ( this is ofcourse lightlevel dependant, less light=less CO2 needed) Lowest pH seems to be 3-3,5 hours after CO2 on, that shouldn't take so long, try to get that to 1 hour.:oops:

My light levels are increasing weekly, therefore I will actually need to adjust Co2 weekly too if that's the case trying to do a Ph profile until everything is set is really wasting time. Just got to keep an eye on the DC's.
 
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