New tank. Some plants suddenly not doing well. What am I doing wrong??

[neofy705]

Hello,

I set up a high tech, it's been planted for 3 weeks now.
I'm running CO2 (about 0.7ph drop), tropica fertilising substrate and tropica soil on-top. Lights are Chihiros WRGB2 Slim.

Ammonia/nitrites/nitrates: 0/0/5
Temp: 23C
Kh 4 gh4
Tds 175

Started using TNC ferts last week.

Plants-status
Limnophila hippuroides - looks healthy but not growing fast and still fully green

Ludwigia palustris Green - doing amazingly well. At least it was. The top part of one stem completely melted overnight. Uniformly turned brown. I removed that part and the rest of that stem is fine.

Monte carlo, half of it looks good. Some of it keeps melting.

Palustris super red - this one was doing so well. Growing quickly and turned "super red". Overnight a lower portion of it turned a pale green. Some older red leaves have green patches.

Rotala indica bonsai - absolute nightmare. 90% melted.

Reineckii mini - still transitioning I guess.

Anubias - glassy patches?

See photos attached.

 

[erwin123]

Rotala indica bonsai - absolute nightmare. 90% melted.

Was the bonsai a tissue culture plant? TC rotala bonsai are so fragile there is really no point.

If you really have no alternative to TC, buy one of those glass planters with suction cups that you can attach to the side of your tank, and plant them there with aquasoil, and put the glass planter near the water surface.

 

[neofy705]

Was the bonsai a tissue culture plant? TC rotala bonsai are so fragile there is really no point.

If you really have no alternative to TC, buy one of those glass planters with suction cups that you can attach to the side of your tank, and plant them there with aquasoil, and put the glass planter near the water surface.

Yes it was a TC.
I'm mostly worried about the palustris super red. I don't understand why it's suddenly melting. This is a photo from today (lights are off but u can still see)

 

[G H Nelson]

Hi
You seem to be low in Nitrate!
I aim for around 20ppm.

 

[neofy705]

Hi
You seem to be low in Nitrate!
I aim for around 20ppm.

Would this cause such a sudden decline in plant health? Bottom to top?

Should I dose nitrogen? (I have some seachem nitrogen)

How do I save the palustris red? Trim and replant the healthy portions?


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[G H Nelson]

Hi
I would dose the Nirtogen!
If these are recently purchased emersed stem plants...sometimes you can get melt or leaf drop in a immature set-up!
Remove the stems cut away the melting parts and leave them floating on the surface for a few weeks.

 

[neofy705]

I thought I was past that stage though as when planted the palustris it was tiny. I will try the nitrogen

 

[LondonAquascaper]

TBH all looks totally normal for a new setup. Sometimes your aquasoil leaches a bit of ammonia at the start and that hits the plants in it before anything else.

I think the best solution is going to just be keep dosing, keep adding co2 and keep doing your water changes. You might lose one or two plants and have the rebuy/replace but thats totally standard for a new setup.

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

Should I dose nitrogen? (I have some seachem nitrogen)

You can, and probably should, but all nitrate (NO3-) ions are the same in solution, so it is a ,"very expensive option in the long run">.

Have a look at <"https://ukaps.org/forum/threads/losing-battle-with-tank.70247/page-3#post-703509"> (and <"subsequent post">).

cheers Darrel

 

[xZaiox]

I'm running CO2 (about 0.7ph drop),

This unfortunately doesn't really tell us much, and is likely on the low side. A CO2 drop of 1.0 indicates a 10x increase in the CO2 concentration of the water, but that number is not always going to be the same. My tank drops 1.6 pH during lights on and all of my fish, shrimp and snails are fine (although this is a higher drop than most people need). Measuring CO2 is unfortunately quite difficult, but it's also very important to get right - plants need very large amounts of carbon, as they use it to build their structure. I believe they're generally made of 40%+ carbon.

Do you have a drop checker? I personally monitor my CO2 levels by using a combination of drop checker, pH drop and livestock behaviour. I find the livestock behaviour is the most reliable indicator, followed by the drop checker.

tropica fertilising substrate and tropica soil on-top

Although Hoggie is right that your nitrates appear low, since this is a fresh substrate, I very highly doubt you'll have any nutrient deficiencies.

You haven't been running it very long, so I think it's natural that some plants will melt as they adapt to underwater growth. I would double check your CO2 is at adequate levels, and keep your lighting relatively low while the plants adapt (the light can then be raised as the plants grow in healthily). It's also very worthwhile to look into custom DIY dry ferts, they'll save you so much money in the long run, as well as give you greater flexibility to dose what you need.

 

[neofy705]

Thank you all for helping.
My drop checker is lime green. Starts 2h before lights on and stops 2h before lights off.
Before I added livestock i would let it turn yellow. But my kh would drop to zero and ph would go as low as 5.5! From tap its kh 0-1 gh 3.

I added algae eaters (amano, cherries, nerites and otos as per tropica's suggestions)
I noticed a dead cherry shrimp and 3 dead snails kh was 1 ph was 6. Since then I turned co2 down a bit and started adding kh up and seachem equilibrium aiming for kh3 and gh 5. But I notice that kh and gh go down after a few days. Right before co2 starts ph is about 7.2.

I have literally zero algae in my tank. Absolutely nothing. And that worries me a bit. I don't know if it's normal and I'm worried my otos are starving.

As for dry ferts I'm reading up on them and it's definitely something I'll do in the near future. For now I'm using tnc complete at 5ml a day and I'll be ordering an automatic doser (which I hope to be able to use with dry ferts).

 

[neofy705]

Today I dosed nitrogen and turned the light brightness all the way up.
Hippuroides finally started turning red.

My problem is still there unfortunately. Ludwigia palustris green. It was absolutely normal last night. Overnight part of it melted completely.

What's puzzling me is that the parts that melt are the new "submerged" growth. Parts that grew healthily over the last week now suddenly die. I'd say it's only the lugwigia palustris that's affected (both green and super red).

 

[xZaiox]

But I notice that kh and gh go down after a few days.

I believe the substrate you are using is an active substrate - it will lower your kH and pH levels. This is generally favourable for plants.

I have literally zero algae in my tank. Absolutely nothing. And that worries me a bit.

Your tank is still very new. Algae generally attacks tanks with unhealthy plant growth, which is why getting the plants to grow healthily is a priority.

I don't know if it's normal and I'm worried my otos are starving.

Otto catfish shouldn't be added to a new tank, they are best added to a fully mature tank. The reason being, is that they eat a lot of biofilm, and things like diatoms. I would strongly suggest you pick up some food specifically for them, such as algae wafers. It can be tricky getting them to eat pellet food because these fish are nearly always wild caught, and they typically don't recognise pellets as food. You're best off putting the wafers in an area they frequently visit, and hoping they eventually have a nibble on it. Once they realise it's food, then they'll be much easier to feed in the future. Alternatively, you can blanch a vegetable like a cucumber or zucchini, and slice it length-ways to create a big surface area, and put that in the tank for a few hours after lights-out.

 

[neofy705]

I believe the substrate you are using is an active substrate - it will lower your kH and pH levels. This is generally favourable for plants.

Your tank is still very new. Algae generally attacks tanks with unhealthy plant growth, which is why getting the plants to grow healthily is a priority.

Otto catfish shouldn't be added to a new tank, they are best added to a fully mature tank. The reason being, is that they eat a lot of biofilm, and things like diatoms. I would strongly suggest you pick up some food specifically for them, such as algae wafers. It can be tricky getting them to eat pellet food because these fish are nearly always wild caught, and they typically don't recognise pellets as food. You're best off putting the wafers in an area they frequently visit, and hoping they eventually have a nibble on it. Once they realise it's food, then they'll be much easier to feed in the future. Alternatively, you can blanch a vegetable like a cucumber or zucchini, and slice it length-ways to create a big surface area, and put that in the tank for a few hours after lights-out.

I moved 4 otos (which are about 2 years old) from my other tank to this and bought 5 more. I wouldn't normally put otos in a new tank but I'm following the tropica app which suggested it. Drip acclimated them for 2 hours. The have eaten the biofilm/fungus that developed on the driftwood the first week. I give them algae wafers and boiled cucumber but they are not interested. I'm expecting some algae lollies for shrimp which hopefully they'll eat. I really hope they survive.

The tropica app suggested that I add otos amanos and nerites to manage the algae... the algae I don't have


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[KirstyF]

Can I also recommend Repashy soilent green for the otto’s. It’s a little expensive but goes a long way and will likely be a more balanced replacement if there is limited natural food available for them.

If you notice them losing weight at all. I would be inclined to put them back into the other tank (or as many as you can, not sure of tank size!!) until this one is more established.

Note that if you were not doing supplementary/targeted feeding in the other tank, it may also not be able to sustain 9 rather than 4 so either way, trying to introduce a food they will take will be of benefit.

It may take them a while for them to figure it out (with either Repashy or the other suggestions above) so be persistent.

Mine will take blanched courgette but only favour it after it’s been in the tank a good 24hrs and is heading towards mushy!

 

[xZaiox]

Can I also recommend Repashy soilent green for the otto’s.

This is probably the best option if possible. The ingredient list is very good/healthy, and it can also be spread on things such as rocks as it cools (outside of the tank). This way you can create rocks covered in the repashy, serving as an artificial (and more nutritious) version of algae. The ottos will have an easier time recognising and grazing on it.

Mine will take blanched courgette but only favour it after it’s been in the tank a good 24hrs and is heading towards mushy!

I've found the worst part about feeding blanched vegetables is that they can sometimes decay really quickly. They seem to foul the water quite easily if left too long, and it can be difficult to tell when "too long" is. My ottos were always happy to eat blanched zucchini, but I wasn't keen on how easily it degrades. I've found that a quarantine tank actually works brilliantly for teaching ottos to eat wafers - if they're put in a small 25l quarantine for a few weeks then there's much less room for them to search, so they come across the wafers quickly and easily, then when they go in the main tank, they readily understand what wafers are.

 

[neofy705]

Thank you both for the suggestion. I can get hold of repashy Super green for cheaper and quicker than the soilent green. Any experience with it and otos?

 

[MichaelJ]

3 weeks is really nothing for a new setup - your tank/plants are still settling in… Keep feeding your plants - Make sure you provide enough NPK and a good blend of traces - go high rather than low initially. Since your doing CO2, the key is to make that stable throughout the tank (same thing apply to non-co2 tanks, but its more critical for injected tanks). Stability and patience is key. Your tank looks great by the way - don’t frazzle!

Cheers,
Michael

 

[Hufsa]

and turned the light brightness all the way up.

I think this is a mistake.
Whatever is causing your plants to melt will most likely be exacerbated by high light.
Your plants are under a lot of stress and more or less showing massive system failure when the plant tissues melt over night. Light drives growth and right now the last thing (I believe) your plants need is a lot of light driving growth that the tissues cannot keep up with. It's like pushing the gas pedal of a car down to the floor while the motor is smoking and making a lot of rattling sounds. My suggestion would rather be to go extra easy on the light for a while until your plants stop melting and start growing normally again

 

[KirstyF]

Thank you both for the suggestion. I can get hold of repashy Super green for cheaper and quicker than the soilent green. Any experience with it and otos?

Soilent green is aimed at Aufwuchs eaters and super green is ‘veggie’ based with no animal product I believe.

I understand that soilent green is generally recommended for Otto’s so if it’s just a couple of pounds in cost, i’d still go for that, but if you are finding it very difficult or slow to get hold of then Super Green is still a good food.