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New to planted tanks

IamAHill

Member
Joined
12 Jun 2020
Messages
36
Location
UK
Hello! New member looking for some advice on my new set up. I have loads of questions and a lot to learn so hoping you can help me out :)

I've had aquariums for about 10 years but previously kept American cichlids in a 500ltr that I shut down when we moved house. During lock down I got really hooked on aquascaping videos on YouTube (in particular George Farmers tanks) and as a result I have bought my first tank in quite a while! It's an EA Aquascaper 600 with a Twinstar 600SM II (which I want to get a dimmer for) and Oase Biomaster Thermo 250 which has stainless steel lilly pipes with a skimmer top. At the moment it is an empty box while I do a fishless cycle but I have used some of my old hardscape that I kept (knew I wasnt ready to leave the hobby!) which you can see I have glued and adapted in the box of the tank, I have a lot of river cobbles too that I might use but might keep it to the wood. The back piece of wood will sit higher when the substrate is sloped up. Long term the tank will be home to a small group of Red Eye Red Tail Puffer Fish and a school of Galaxy Rasbora.

IMG_0764.jpeg IMG_0766.jpeg

I am planning to run this as a low tech tank with no Co2 but I want to use Tropica Aquasoil and dose with Tropica Premium. My hope is that by having a quality light combined with good substrate and fertilisers, while I wont be able to match a high tech tank with Co2 I should be able to achieve a good tank? As for the elephant in the room - the reason I am not going for Co2 is that I've run out of money for this tank... but also my wife is far from convinced that having a presurised canister in the house is a good idea and when I used the words 'hack' and 'fire extinguisher' in the same sentance, I was told a firm no.

For plants I am trying to work out what my best options would be - I quite like the foreground and midground plants but not sure what I want to do other than the Pennywort. Does anyone have some suggestions?

Foreground
- Micranthemum Monte Carlo
- Marsilea Hirsuta
- Helanthium Tenellum 'Green'

Midground
- Cryptocoryne Albida 'Brown'
- Hygrophila Pinnatifida
- Hydrocotyle Tripartita

Background
- Hydrocotyle Leucocephala

Epiphites
- Small species of Buce
- Small species of Anubias
- Bolbitis Difformis Linea
- Fissidens moss
- Flame moss

I might use the bigger Hydrocotyle on the front left of the tank and the smaller in the back right to try and create some depth with the two similar plants but I know the H. Leucocephala would take a lot of trimming at the front. I've seen some successful low tech tanks use Monte Carlo but I might opt for Marsilea Hirsuta as a safer option? I'm planning on using the Monte Carlo on the open area in the front right then the Helanthium closer to the wood.

The biggest concern I have is that I am headed for a big algae breakout by using too powerful light and too many nutrients through my substrate and tap water. Do you think I am right? And if so, how should I manage that? What sort of timings should I use for the lights and what percentage should I set the lights to? My tap water is not great which is one of my concerns. It has a neutral ph but is quite hard, the hardness is also quite stable (I forget how this translates into Kh and Gh), we also have quite high nitrates which runs at between 20-30ppm out of the tap. What do you guys think will be the result of this?

Lastly, with the substrate should I just stick to the aqua soil or should I put something like Power Sand under it? And also should I cap aqua soil with some kind of sand?

If you have read this far much appreciated and looking forward to any help I can get
thanks Andy
 
Planting sounds sensible to me and the choice of fish is very nice.

For lighting I’m pretty sure 44 watts LED on a 60cm tank without CO2 is too much unless you dim. For reference I’m running a 15w light on a 25cm tank at 25% power.

Would your Mrs allow a soda siphon in the house? You could show her the beautify, shiny, expensive top end CO2 solutions from the big brands and explain it’s the same technology? Fortunately my wife is a diver so she’s comfortable with cylinders of compressed gas - it’s just a not entirely irrational fear of leaks I have to deal with!

The Tropica soil substrate is very nice. If you want to spice that up with a bottom layer of power sand or root tabs then that won’t do any harm - your crypts and other root feeders will thank you for it by going crazy, but its only a nice to have. The Tropica soil is nice looking just as it is, but for aesthetics you could top it with the Tropica soil powder, which is easier for carpeting plants to root in.
 
Thanks Ray thats really helpful - am I likely going to need to run the light at a very low power then? I was thinking that with some 'medium' category plants like the H.Pinnatifida it would work out ok? Does a too powerful light mean having it on for less time too?

I was looking at the soil powder too so I think I might top some of the regular soil off with that too. I'm wondering if some more crypt species might help in the background with the sloped background and the tank not being very tall.

I'll keep working on the Co2 - might just need to wait a while before I can get the gear :)
 
am I likely going to need to run the light at a very low power then? I was thinking that with some 'medium' category plants like the H.Pinnatifida it would work out ok? Does a too powerful light mean having it on for less time too?
No matter how bright, 8 hours light is good, but most people start out with 6 hours at first. Some people do a sunset/sunrise period at just 10% to extend the lighting period. Re. the “right amount of light” my understanding is it works like this:
11f73f411f3a68562026832636f80294.jpg



Now each plant needs different PAR values to grow so this is more art than science. A good sanity check is to google for PAR measurements for your light and compare your plants with this chart: https://answers.seneye.com/index.p...t_is_PAR_&_PUR_?/fresh_water_plant_PAR_levels


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
Thanks again - I think the SM has 125 par rating at 15 inches which is roughly about right for me. So looking at that list I should be ok? It is very possible I have misunderstood something though...
 
Starting to waver on the Co2 can anyone recommend a high quality, fool proof set up?
 
Thanks again - I think the SM has 125 par rating at 15 inches which is roughly about right for me. So looking at that list I should be ok? It is very possible I have misunderstood something though...
No you've not misunderstood, but I've a feeling it will be too much without CO2 for some plants. @buttons has a nice low tech journal where he runs his 33w Twinstar 600e at 50%. You've got the more powerful version...

I'm not the person to ask for CO2 as I am not in the UK. The ideal is a refillable cylinder and a regulator. A good LFS that "knows" planted tanks will be able to supply all that, show you how to set it up in store and you can pop back for a cylinder refill - it's fool proof, supports the store and should reassure the Mrs... In the CO2 section I think there are posts exploring more budget solutions with fire extinguishers or welding gas suppliers and also various places to get a refill. There are also cheaper kits with disposable cylinders but they cost more long term.

NB: Liquid Carbon is a sort of boosted low tech route.
 
For CO2, look at co2art dual stage regulators for the higher end stuff, then there are brands like barn co2 for a more reasonable price. For the canisters, fire extinguishers are the best as they last a long time and are relatively cheap, buying tanks of branded gas from lfs just doesn't make sense.
 
I'm a big fan of Buttons low tech tank! Quizzed him heavily on facebook when he posted it haha!

I dont think I have an LFS that is well versed with aquascaping. Some very good shops locally but not for this. There may be one near by but they are refurbishing their freshwater section at the moment but I know they have done sessions with George Farmer in the past so could be a good option when re-open. I actually like the fire extinguisher route more than a regular cylinder just because they will be built to a high safety standard and there will be little room for human error (apart from mine!)

I think I am going to go with a Co2 Art SE regulator set - need to choose in-line or diffuser now. In a 100 ltr I think diffuser should work well and I have cut my filter pipes to fit the space.

thanks Andy
 
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.. but also my wife is far from convinced that having a presurised canister in the house is a good idea and when I used the words 'hack' and 'fire extinguisher' in the same sentance, I was told a firm no.

welcome to my world (and UKAPS of course).

’Gas’, ‘High pressure’, ‘Leaks’?

Might as well say ‘Ravenous Bird-eating Spiders the size of your fist’ ‘colony’ ‘eat partners of aquascapers’ ‘currently residing in cabinet’.

She’s got a smidge of a case as in, I can see where her fears come from but for the life of me a cursory punt round the net for ‘aquarium exploding co2 canisters’ or such reveals nothing so far. Only thing I’ve seen is some guy in a shop in the US refilling an poorly maintained paintball 20oz cga320 fit, guy takes it home, hears a leak , tank is frozen and hissing away until it empties. Full explosive meltdown with popping valve, shredded metal, blowing holes in the wall? Not yet but if anyone has horror stories please share, what do I know right? I’m a guy that ducks and scoots from those hook on compressors they use in roadworks. The hiss from one of those trips my fight or flight mechanism IMMEDIATELY:(

I get her fear and these things are undoubtably not to be messed about with but, put it this way, back in the day when pubs existed, I never once saw my landlord come back up from the cellar with a missing frozen stump where his finger once was, nor peppered with steel fragments etc and these guys deal with 5kg (and more) mixers and straight co2 weekly. They’re scuffed, and scraped from being hauled on and off of drays. Same if you see the canisters/ tanks in a hospital.


Short of an intervention, rightly or wrongly, she’s not cool with the idea. It’s her place I’m locked down in so, you know.

......however, taking the water torture/broken record/quid pro quo/slowly slowly catchy monkey combo I’ve ordered a passive system. How much harm can a bit of citric acid, water and baking soda do ? (plenty if its unvented and has been built to poor tolerances no doubt) So she buys that theory then I reveal that there’s just as much potential catastrophic damage to be done by that as by a 1.5 kg tank of gas from Adams ,dual stage regulator, solenoid and backflow valve- (sorta) Tadahhh!

Out comes the Soda stream bottle I just happen to have with the dual regulator (which was a gift :oops:)and adaptor and hopefully, fingers crossed:rolleyes:

That’s the theory anyway. One way or another I’m accruing a stack of co2 gear for a tank/tanks back at my place one way or another.

On another level, as curious as I am about the allure of co2 it’s not something I will fret without. The right plants, the right PAR, the right ferts = happy aquascape. I’m not burning to prove I can grow a carpet of HC. Nor coax harder, more demanding plants but I get it for those that do or just want healthier growth, I really do.


George F and the pro’s who need a ‘scape of plants to flush in a tight window for an expo, photoshoot, corporate client etc. That’s the tools of the trade. I’m not that guy. George is a much better ambassador for this hobby than I would ever be and the top ADA ‘scapers are similarly so, so good it’s breathtaking. I look at what they create and am in awe. Really inspiring stuff. Good luck to them.

Healthy, happy plants and a few content shrimp is my aim.....for now. Choose your poison I guess.

Speech over, back on my head.

Good luck

BG
 
I get her fear and these things are undoubtably not to be messed about with but, put it this way, back in the day when pubs existed, I never once saw my landlord come back up from the cellar with a missing frozen stump where his finger once was, nor peppered with steel fragments etc and these guys deal with 5kg (and more) mixers and straight co2 weekly. They’re scuffed, and scraped from being hauled on and off of drays. Same if you see the canisters/ tanks in a hospital.

Just for the hell off it I WA’d a mate who’s an experienced publican. In all that time he’s had one co2 tank fizz on him (20 years ago) but says the regulators have come on leaps and bounds since then. The straight co2 is ‘post mix’ i.e. the post that that the fizzy soft drinks come from. That multi-buttons thing? It’s basically syrup and food grade co2.

He says they also use 60/40 and 70/30 nitrogen/ Co2 mixed gases for lager and stout respectively. Never had one of those pop but would expect it’s much more explosive than the co2 if it went bad.

Won’t change the prospects one bit of course but maybe of interest.

I’ll research what fitting a post mix comes with and do a bit of horse trading on a tank for my own set up;)

best wishes

BG
 
Thanks @Big G we've decided to go for it now - feeling quite good about it got my regulator and all the kit now. Still need to get my fire extinguisher but I know where I want to get it from.

Its been really great to get the support from this forum and other pages/groups but also from the shops and the manufacturers such a great community.
 
Thanks @Big G we've decided to go for it now - feeling quite good about it got my regulator and all the kit now. Still need to get my fire extinguisher but I know where I want to get it from.

Its been really great to get the support from this forum and other pages/groups but also from the shops and the manufacturers such a great community.
Chuffed for you:) Let me know how you get on👍 BG
 
Just my quick 2 cents, do not let your hobby become a dividing line in your relationship. As much as I agree that CO2 would be very beneficial to your setup, if the wife says no adamantly, then respect her wishes. Over time she may see your side if you present her with enough evidence it won’t be the danger she anticipates, but don’t wear her down about it either. Make her a part of the process, I.e. what plants to choose or fish etc., so she feels a connection to it if that makes sense.

There are many beautiful tanks without CO2, there’s a video of George Farmer interviewing a friend of his that has GORGEOUS non CO2 tanks that are so lush and beautiful I’d sware he was lying about the Co2. Good luck with it!
 
Just my quick 2 cents, do not let your hobby become a dividing line in your relationship. As much as I agree that CO2 would be very beneficial to your setup, if the wife says no adamantly, then respect her wishes. Over time she may see your side if you present her with enough evidence it won’t be the danger she anticipates, but don’t wear her down about it either. Make her a part of the process, I.e. what plants to choose or fish etc., so she feels a connection to it if that makes sense.

There are many beautiful tanks without CO2, there’s a video of George Farmer interviewing a friend of his that has GORGEOUS non CO2 tanks that are so lush and beautiful I’d sware he was lying about the Co2. Good luck with it!

Thanks :) dont worry we are all good. Once she saw the regulator on an other of Georges videos she got it (where would we be without him). Once I realised how powerful the light I have was I knew low tech wouldnt work but there are tons of really inspirational low tech tanks out there. I know the video you mean, I love that it led him to set up Scapped Nature in Norwich too. Buttons journal on here is a great example of a low tech tank too.
 
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