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Newbie, need some low tech tank guidance.

JustMike

New Member
Joined
6 Jan 2022
Messages
11
Location
Belgium
Soooo, i have a tank running which is month and a half old. There is one echinodorus (probably grisebachi) which has been doing bad since the start. You can see it in the picture below.

IMG20220127160127.jpg

Some plants have completely vanished, rotala green, and hygrophila pinnatifida have just vanished. Most other plants seem to be doing quite allright. Most crypts are making new leaves.

I want to figure out why that echinodorus is not happy. I'm a complete newb. This is my second tank, the first is a nano tank which is doing 'fine' all things considering.

Tank is 180 liter, tap water.
Tap water has a ph of 7.6. german degrees of hardness is 11.20 to 24.64. I also found out all of the other stats of which it is comprised but i don't know if this information is of use.

I just tested tank water. Since i ran out of fert mix yesterday, i havent added any since. I'm awaiting delivery of 1000ml dosing bottles to make a new batch. Ammonia, nitrite and nitrite all zero. Ph 7,5. I do 50% water changes once per week.

Soil is dennerle deponit. Topped off with a gravel layer.

Lights are two t5 size LED tubes by Sera. One has white and red led's, 6000 to 8000 kelvin. The other has red led's, has around 3000 kelvin. Both are equivalent to 45 watts, so i have 0,5 watts per liter. This is low light, so i've put them to 100% only yesterday, i had them at lower setting before while figuring out their strength. They run 8 hours now with 1 ramp up and ramp down included.

Fertilizer is a EI kit by plantedbox (Belgium). I followed the recipe, but had to adjust the portions for 100ml bottles so had to work with tiny spoons so mix might have been off. The recipe just says x spoons of this, x spoons of that. No mention of ppm or weight. The recipe mentions to add a third of the standard EI dosage for low tech conditions so that's what i did.

This echinodorus is planted under my floaters. Could the shadow be the issue? Does it need more light?

IMG20220128194059.jpg

If it needs more light, i can move it, i'd need to find another background plant then, that would do better in those circumstances.

And for further reference, the condition of my floaters:
IMG20220123140627.jpg

I guess i need some pointers, because i have trouble just focusing on one possible issue and going from there. I've done a lot of reading but threads sometimes get complicated quickly, while also not knowing if what i learn can be used to fix my own issue.

I realize that questions like these get asked daily. So i apologize before hand if it seems as if i'm not doing my research but trust me, i'm trying. I'm just a bit of a chaotic mind and get distracted easily.

Thank you all in advance!
 
There is one echinodorus (probably grisebachi) which has been doing bad since the start
Just to clarify, is there one or more echinodorus in the tank? If only one but not all are struggling, it might mean something else than if all are struggling.
Some plants have completely vanished, rotala green, and hygrophila pinnatifida have just vanished.
Yeah I wouldnt sweat that, ive killed so many rotala varietes, dont let the easy label fool you. For some people they grow like weeds and for others they just die. It might be too low light, but that is sometimes a neccessary thing in a low tech tank. If you could grow Hygrophila pinnatifida, @Karmicnull and I would have to start worshipping you as some sort of god, so that is also not surprising.


Your echinodorus looks hungry. Possibly also a bit shaded, if it is correct that your light has been lower than you intended. It wont help just to increase the light, light drives growth and the demand for nutrients, so fixing just that will just make it even hungrier.

It sounds like you will soon have more ferts, I think that will make things much better. Your "duckweed index" looks pretty good, but I suspect that floaters are very fast at grabbing the available nutrients. The reason I think so is because I once accidentally overdosed copper medication in my tank, and all the floaters rotted and died within days, but most of the other plants were a-ok. They probably absorbed most of the copper before the other plants could get toxic amounts. Therefore I think maybe your swordplant is just late to the dinnertable and going to bed hungry ;)

Add some more ferts, dont be afraid to add "too much", you can dial it down if you want once all the plants are growing good. I have dosed full EI in my low tech tank with absolutely no more algae than with less ferts. This is because our method is to limit plant growth by light, but I digress.
You have already increased your light, so you need to also give that several weeks to see any changes. More ferts + light, give it 6 weeks to see for low tech.
You can also make sure your floaters are not shading heavily in that section if possible. Swordplants can take a lot of light.
If possible an ideal location for floaters would be above anubias and crypts, as they require the least amount of light. But this may be difficult to implement in practice.

I realize that questions like these get asked daily. So i apologize before hand if it seems as if i'm not doing my research but trust me, i'm trying. I'm just a bit of a chaotic mind and get distracted easily.
No problem at all 😊 Sometimes you just need advice that is tailored to your exact situation

Let me know if anything is unclear! 😃
 
If you could grow Hygrophila pinnatifida, @Karmicnull and I would have to start worshipping you as some sort of god,
I hadn't wanted to say, but @Hufsa is not wrong!

Whilst we're on the topic of pinnatifida - Hufsa now you're going mid-tech, you know you have to try again. Also I promised you an update before Christmas and it is woefully past that date - but as a teaser, in that post I'm going to unveil my plan on how I'm not going to kill pinnatifida....
 
How about adding half doses of a liquid carbon product to help with your stem plants.

Also, ive seen on various forms, people adapt the outlet so you can attach a spray bar, by way of some cut hose and a section of spray bar which will give much much better flow.

Not a fan of the idea as of yet as it would make the tank alot noisier, allthough i can probably mount the spray bar underwater. But then i'd have to rethink my floating plants strategy. But yes, in theory, you're correct, it would fix all flow issues.

Just to clarify, is there one or more echinodorus in the tank? If only one but not all are struggling, it might mean something else than if all are struggling.

No problem at all 😊 Sometimes you just need advice that is tailored to your exact situation

Let me know if anything is unclear! 😃

Yes i've added a sword two weeks ago, it was in better shape from the start and it's holding up better. I could not yet determine why, untill i'd have more understanding on why the first sword is worsening.

Thanks a ton! I will up the ferts and observe from there! Maybe you could start the worshipping process allready? I'm sure it would help the sword growth aswell, so i could work up to succesfull pinatifida growth? 😁

I hadn't wanted to say, but @Hufsa is not wrong!

Whilst we're on the topic of pinnatifida - Hufsa now you're going mid-tech

Whats a mid tech situation? Liquid carbo?
 
spray bar underwater
Yes it definitely needs to be underwater

But then i'd have to rethink my floating plants strategy. But yes, in theory, you're correct, it would fix all flow issues.
Can confirm it will help a lot with flow, and can also make it very difficult for your floaters. I struggled so much with getting floaters to thrive until I figured that out. If I want to keep floaters with my levels of surface agitation I have to keep them in a basket, which I currently dont want to do.

Yes i've added a sword two weeks ago, it was in better shape from the start and it's holding up better. I could not yet determine why, untill i'd have more understanding on why the first sword is worsening.
Ah I see, there could definitely be a shading situation going on here then if they are doing differently. But different starting health will also affect things, if a plant arrives in really bad shape for instance, it can take a long time to get its momentum going again in low tech.

Maybe you could start the worshipping process allready?
We will convene the council to make a decision about it, answer will be available in 2-3 working years :thumbup:

Whats a mid tech situation? Liquid carbo?
Not liquid carbo, more of a low light + injected CO2 setup. Sometimes also called hybrid tech. If low tech is a tractor, then high tech is a racecar. Hybrid tech is a bit like having a racecar but you only drive it really slowly :thumbup: All your neighbors will be envious but also lessens the risk of crashing into a lightpost trying to do a burnout ;)
 
Just as a possible inspiration for Mid-Tech pinnatifida, my tank is fairly low light still, although with ‘full’ Co2. (0.9 drop so close enough) and I would say that the pinnatifida is probably the strongest growing plant in the tank. (Entirely by accident of course, one of many plants I’ve never grown before)

1E8CBA92-9BBC-4BFF-AAF5-1158910253F1.jpeg

It’s quite leggy, maybe not the prettiest specimen, but grown a huge amount and throwing out runners all over.

FE9D2583-7438-4346-AECD-44FA83930D17.jpeg

You can just about see it on the highest rock in this image. I think that was 10 weeks ago now.

Gonna have to figure out how to trim it soon….and cuttings will be available 😊
 
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