Not enough filteration??? P&H 25l Supplied Filter

[sr20det]

I have a P&H 25l and am using the supplied Coopet or something filter that came with, its not bad basically a internal filtter with spraybar. I lost one rasbora to the main inlet plug, so I have modded it with HA6 silicone blocking it up along with the gap power adjuster, on max setting with sliding gap siliconed shut.

But I also wonder if I have good filteration. I think it has been set up nearly two months, pretty bare with just gravel (Tesco Litter Molar) and some moss on lava rocks (Willow and Fissedens).

I am doing weekly 20-30% water changes with tap water treated with Amquel plus. Occasionally my readings for Ammonia and Nitrite vary. My Nitrite is 0, but my ammonia was reading 0.25 yesterday. Week before both were 0? Now I havent fed fish for about a day when I took the reading. Planning a water change tonight just to knock this down to 0, hopefully.

PH is 7.5 and TDS is around the 450 mark.

Occupants are 3 Rasbora Hengeli, lost 3 over the last month, one to the filter (P&H Chopper Filter). 4 Dwarf Corys, and 3 Ramshorn Snails. I am building up to have this planted, but sorting out light and co2 was my main aim before doing so.

I know I need to get my TDS down, but why would my readings read 0.25 for Ammonia? My only assumption is filteration lacking?

Appreciate many folk suggest test kits may be unreliable? Still use it as a guide mind.

 

[Ian Holdich]

what/are you dosing fert wise???

I know TPN+ and the likes contain ammonium, this registers on most hobby grade test kits.

 

[sr20det]

what/are you dosing fert wise???

I know TPN+ and the likes contain ammonium, this registers on most hobby grade test kits.

No ferts, Bare tank really, no plants besides mosses on lava rock, too minute to bother dosing at min. Doesnt have a lamp either, have a puny desk lamp I switch on beside it for a few hours in evening around feeding time, and get a little bit of day light coming through as its not far from window. Not in direct sunlight or enough light to warrent growth or even algae problems. But enough for mosses I think, seem to be ok.

Normal feeding regieme, small amounts of tetramin, once a day. Any sink to the bottom taken care of by corries, occasional cat pellets 2mm ones for the corrys 3-4 only. again any foods given once a day, and only enough for them to eat in 5-10 mins really.

Temp over the last couple of days has been warm and tank has risen to 25'c bu can drop to 19'c. heater out for the summer as temp never drops below 19-20'c really. Fish seems to be happier at 19-21'c (actively looking for food) then at 25'c I have found. Seem more active, whereas last night 25'c fish seemed to be resting, corries sat in a corner.

 

[spyder]

You question the reliability of test kits at the end of your post and considering you have a result of 0.25ppm, well it could be zero or 5.25. Have you tested straight from the tap?

I would be surprised if the filter wasn't able to keep up with light stocking. When were the last fish introduced? Was it recent?

 

[sr20det]

You question the reliability of test kits at the end of your post and considering you have a result of 0.25ppm, well it could be zero or 5.25. Have you tested straight from the tap?

I would be surprised if the filter wasn't able to keep up with light stocking. When were the last fish introduced? Was it recent?

Fish were introduced about a month ago. Tank was cycled for about a month before that, with water from established tank along with Nutrafin Cycle Boost. When tested was reading 0 Ammonia and 0 Nitrite.

Tap does have a 0.25 reading, and I was using API Stress Coat which dealt with Ammonia and Clorine, so I invested Amquel plus which apparently deals with Nitrite as both tap water were reading traces of both. 2 weeks ago tested for Ammonia and Nirite and was reading 0.

Report from Thames Water states that as a max, 0.23ppm is reachable.

I store water for about a week in a 5lt Bottle. When filling water I add the Amquel plus, but recently read that if not used within two days the reading can revert back? Unless converted by biological filter in its less toxic form. So wonder if this is the case as bottle isnt filtered or anything?

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,
If the test measure TAN (total ammonia nitrogen, free ammonia and bound ammonia together), any ammonia that has been complexed by the "Amquel" will still register on the kit.

except for the ammonia test kits that use Nessler reagents that read in shades of amber or yellow..... Residual AmQuel Plus and its reaction products are incompatible with the Nessler type reagents, resulting in false, high ammonia readings. Ammonia test kits using Salicylate-type reagents (reading on a colorimetric scale from yellow to green to blue green) are appropriate for accurate test results.

From <http://www.novalek.com/kordon/amquel+/index.htm>

Amquel has a patent, but it still isn't entirely clear how it works, best guess is:

Ammonia's reaction with hydroxymethanesulfonate is mechanistically complicated, possibly involving decomposition to formaldehyde and reformation to the product aminomethanesulfonate (shown below).
The simplified overall reaction is believed to be:

NH3 + HOCH2SO3- ~ H2NCH2SO3- + H2O

What ultimately happens to the aminomethanesulfonate in the aquarium is not well established

Having said that, you need to throw the test kit away, they aren't of any real use.

No ferts, Bare tank really, no plants besides mosses on lava rock, too minute to bother dosing at min. Doesnt have a lamp either, have a puny desk lamp I switch on beside it for a few hours in evening around feeding time, and get a little bit of day light coming through as its not far from window.

What you need are some more plants, I'd strongly recommend adding some Amazon Frog-bit (Limnobium laevigatum) and Java Fern (Microsorum pteropus), these will effectively mop up any ammonia, and improve water quality. If you don't have enough light for the Frog-bit moving the tank a little nearer the window should work or you could put the lamp on a timer.

3 Rasbora Hengeli, lost 3 over the last month

Difficult to know with the fish death, but these are quite sensitive fish, and unexplained fish death often relates to water quality issues, and particularly sub-lethal levels of dissolved oxygen. Low dissolved oxygen levels are often related to problems with biological filtration.

I'd also have a look at "Aeration and dissolved oxygen in the aquarium" <http://plecoplanet.com/?page_id=829> (apologies for the cross-post)

Once your tank is stable you can dump the Frog-bit, although I'd keep some as a measure of when to fertilise, using the "Duckweed index" method of assessing the growth and colour of the floating plants. Details here: <http://www.ukaps.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=21003> & <http://www.ukaps.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=20782&start=10> & <http://www.ukaps.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=14400>.

cheers Darrel

 

[sr20det]

Hi all,
If the test measure TAN (total ammonia nitrogen, free ammonia and bound ammonia together), any ammonia that has been complexed by the "Amquel" will still register on the kit.

except for the ammonia test kits that use Nessler reagents that read in shades of amber or yellow..... Residual AmQuel Plus and its reaction products are incompatible with the Nessler type reagents, resulting in false, high ammonia readings. Ammonia test kits using Salicylate-type reagents (reading on a colorimetric scale from yellow to green to blue green) are appropriate for accurate test results.

From <http://www.novalek.com/kordon/amquel+/index.htm>

Amquel has a patent, but it still isn't entirely clear how it works, best guess is:

Ammonia's reaction with hydroxymethanesulfonate is mechanistically complicated, possibly involving decomposition to formaldehyde and reformation to the product aminomethanesulfonate (shown below).
The simplified overall reaction is believed to be:

NH3 + HOCH2SO3- ~ H2NCH2SO3- + H2O

What ultimately happens to the aminomethanesulfonate in the aquarium is not well established

Having said that, you need to throw the test kit away, they aren't of any real use.

No ferts, Bare tank really, no plants besides mosses on lava rock, too minute to bother dosing at min. Doesnt have a lamp either, have a puny desk lamp I switch on beside it for a few hours in evening around feeding time, and get a little bit of day light coming through as its not far from window.

What you need are some more plants, I'd strongly recommend adding some Amazon Frog-bit (Limnobium laevigatum) and Java Fern (Microsorum pteropus), these will effectively mop up any ammonia, and improve water quality. If you don't have enough light for the Frog-bit moving the tank a little nearer the window should work or you could put the lamp on a timer.

3 Rasbora Hengeli, lost 3 over the last month

Difficult to know with the fish death, but these are quite sensitive fish, and unexplained fish death often relates to water quality issues, and particularly sub-lethal levels of dissolved oxygen. Low dissolved oxygen levels are often related to problems with biological filtration.

I'd also have a look at "Aeration and dissolved oxygen in the aquarium" <http://plecoplanet.com/?page_id=829> (apologies for the cross-post)

Once your tank is stable you can dump the Frog-bit, although I'd keep some as a measure of when to fertilise, using the "Duckweed index" method of assessing the growth and colour of the floating plants. Details here: <http://www.ukaps.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=21003> & <http://www.ukaps.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=20782&start=10> & <http://www.ukaps.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=14400>.

cheers Darrel

Brillaint post Darrell, Many Thanks

I do have duckweed in another tank, can this be used in place of Limnobium laevigatum?

I do a have a lamp, but its a pretty puny one, 3w i think of a warm light ikea jobbie, so I can have this on. Am setting up a 30w light unit for the tank and plan was to do co2 via FE and go with HC as a carpet.

I also do have Java Fern on lava rock which I could introduce into tank as a interim up until then?

Dissolved oxygen sounds like a poss, yesterday temps were high and fish seemed lazy? Wonder if it is a direct correlation? I have the spray bar creating maximum surface agitation at the moment, not worried about losing co2 seeing it isnt planted? Which then points to filteration again, maybe I dont have enough biological bacteria?

 

[sr20det]

Just to add, I am using the API test kits and the ammonia does read from Yellow = 0 via Green to Blue I think. The colour I was getting was Greeny Yellow, whilst light light Green is 0.25, which was the closest to it. Though it could be 0.20 or 0.15 as it did have a yellow tinge in it to warrent it as light light green. Still it wasnt full on yellow so therefore it wasnt 0.

So hopefully meaning this works with Amquel plus.

 

[Nutbeam]

bought one of these setups and chucked the filter out, grabbed a APS 250 corner unit with spray bar and gives much better circulation and clears the tank of debris quite rapidly

 

[logi-cat]

Not enough filteration??? P&H 25l Supplied Filter

I slapped an eheim 2213 on my one

 

[sr20det]

Well I posted:

viewtopic.php?f=38&t=22072

All honesty the coopet does provide a very good flow imo. But if silicone to stop leaks, I found it very effective. Flow wise. Just that it has a small sponge, and that's all.

With external at least you can have layers of filteration. Bio balls, ceramic rings, carbon, etc

I do have a 600lph hang on filter, which might be an option, but flow would be weak imo.

 

[sr20det]

Did a 30-40% water change, amquel +, reading 0 ammonia and nitrate.

Will test daily. Noticed, Amquel pushes my water to 420 tds. Out the tap its 350???