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Outdoor Planted Tank. (Vietnam) Possible? **Pics Page 4**

Stickleback

Member
Joined
12 Nov 2009
Messages
189
Location
Vietnam
Hi Everyone.

I would really appreciate some input in to this little project.

I have just moved out to Vietnam. I am setting up a planted tank at work and I have a brilliant spot for it on my balcony. I was just wondering what the consensus is on outdoor aquariums and their viability.

I will provide the details as simply as possible below.

The Plan

Low tech tank using James planted tank all in one solution (no CO2 or liquid carbon added).
Borneo Wild or Oliver Knott substrate.
No direct sunlight but lots of indirect light for 12 hours a day year round. No supplemental light.
Ambient temperature about 33C daytime 24C at night (no heating or cooling used)
The filters I have would only provide 3x turnover per hour.
Fast flow within tank.
The roof would prevent rain getting in to or on the tank.
Dimensions L140 X W80 X H60cm, open top.
Will be very heavily planted with lots of plants growing emersed too.
Will be averagely stocked with fish.

Do you think it would work or would it become and algae and mosquito farm?

Any pitfalls you can point out would be much appreciated.

Many thanks

Stickleback.
 
Re: Outdoor Planted Tank. Possible?

ghostsword said:
Without co2 you will be in trouble.

Probably true, but with CO2 I would also be in trouble because of the inconsistency of the light and the long daylight hours right?
 
Re: Outdoor Planted Tank. Possible?

An Outdoor tank can work great if done right.
I would not worry about it becoming a Mozzy farm, as fish would keep the numbers at bay. And a good algae crew will help with controlling that issue. Outdoor tanks can look great, I loved my Planted tank in the consevatory.
My youngest brother spent most of last year in Thailand/Vietnam(Muay Thai Tournament/training) and Loved it over there, so congrats on making the move.
 
Re: Outdoor Planted Tank. Possible?

MIght be worth establishing it indoors so that when you move it outside it's already populated with mozzy and algae eating crew? Sounds interesting though
 
Re: Outdoor Planted Tank. Possible?

33c is too hot for most fish even asian/local fish. you may have to fit some form of cooling but then again you may not the best way to monitor it for a week or so before stocking.

also be cautious that doing a water change with no active heating don't put pure cold water in as it'll take too long to warm back up you'll have to use water thats fairly close to the actual aquarium temperature
 
Re: Outdoor Planted Tank. Possible?

What's the year round climate?

Monsoon season should take care of your water changes!
 
Re: Outdoor Planted Tank. Possible?

Doesn't rainwater naturally contain carbon dioxide anyway ? Or is this just me being stupid ? :lol:
 
Re: Outdoor Planted Tank. Possible?

A couple of months ago there was an article in PFK of a bloke who has created a massive outdoor tropical tank outside in the uk. icant remember if it was planted but i dont see why it shouldnt be possible, i guess you will have to fiddle around and experiment to get the balence right regarding light, ferts etc but why not, many of the plants we grow in our tanks come from such an environment dont they
 
Re: Outdoor Planted Tank. Possible?

other than finding livestock that does not mind the high temps i can not see how this differs from other low tech naturally lit planted tanks. I have had successful unlit planted tanks. Was interesting to see the growth rates change with the seasons/sunlight.

Having seen, and been very impressed with, your last tank in London i have no doubt you will come up with something quite special :)
 
Re: Outdoor Planted Tank. Possible?

Good luck with this. :thumbup: It sounds a real challenge and I would be interested in seeing how it goes - maybe you should start a journal?

Stickleback said:
The filters I have would only provide 3x turnover per hour.
Fast flow within tank.

I wouldn't go for fast flow. There is a 10x turnover "rule" but thats for mixing and distribution of ferts/co2 - it doesn't mean have fast flow. You want maximum turnover with as little flow as possible while ensuring good distribution. Algae love flow, especially hairy algae. Most algae come from rivers and flow is one of ways it can determine the season and adjust it's behaviour accordingly. Fast flow is usually associated with spring time so the algae gets ready for summer where growth will be best. It also forces GDA onto the glass where it sticks, and provides an ideal location on the glass for GSA to germinate.
 
Re: Outdoor Planted Tank. Possible?

Thanks for all the replies and advice, will take it all on board.

So I have decided to go ahead and do it. The tank is being made now. I will definitely start a journal.

I think the fish should be O.K. all the aquarium shops here open out on to the street and are definitely not cooled so as long as I take fish from there then should be O.K. It is a 650 litre tank so would I be right in thinking that the temperature would not fluctuate too much from day to night? The average temperature over 24 hours would be 28.5.

I am waiting for a new camera (two guys with machetes kindly relieved me of all my camera gear in Madagascar) when I get it I will put up some video of the planted tank shops in Saigon. You will be amazed, it is a mainstream pass time here.

sWozzAres said:
Stickleback said:
The filters I have would only provide 3x turnover per hour.
Fast flow within tank.

I wouldn't go for fast flow. There is a 10x turnover "rule" but thats for mixing and distribution of ferts/co2 - it doesn't mean have fast flow. You want maximum turnover with as little flow as possible while ensuring good distribution. Algae love flow, especially hairy algae. Most algae come from rivers and flow is one of ways it can determine the season and adjust it's behaviour accordingly. Fast flow is usually associated with spring time so the algae gets ready for summer where growth will be best. It also forces GDA onto the glass where it sticks, and provides an ideal location on the glass for GSA to germinate.

That's interesting I had not heard that before. It is also annoying because I like fast flow for aesthetic reasons. Will just have to see what happens I guess.

What do you think about 3 x turnover with the filters for a low tech tank?

Many thanks

S
 
Re: Outdoor Planted Tank. Possible?

Stickleback said:
sWozzAres said:
Stickleback said:
The filters I have would only provide 3x turnover per hour.
Fast flow within tank.

I wouldn't go for fast flow. There is a 10x turnover "rule" but thats for mixing and distribution of ferts/co2 - it doesn't mean have fast flow. You want maximum turnover with as little flow as possible while ensuring good distribution. Algae love flow, especially hairy algae. Most algae come from rivers and flow is one of ways it can determine the season and adjust it's behaviour accordingly. Fast flow is usually associated with spring time so the algae gets ready for summer where growth will be best. It also forces GDA onto the glass where it sticks, and provides an ideal location on the glass for GSA to germinate.

That's interesting I had not heard that before.
And it's not really true either. The 10X rule has little to do with "mixing of ferts" because the distribution of nutrient ions within the water column occurs as a function of ionic and osmotic forces. In our tanks it's also not a good policy to think about flow in terms of "that algae love flow". This will undo a lot of progress because it's a misinterpretation of the forces which are at work.

The 10X rule is a general rule of thumb which applies primarily to CO2 enriched tanks. The goal of the turnover is to move a mass of water across the leaf in order to reduce the thickness of the boundary layer, which is an area of stagnant and slow moving water situated above the leaf surface. The thickness of this layer presents an obstacle to the movement of CO2 and nutrients into the tissue membrane. CO2 is 10,000X less soluble in water than it is in air so that even nanometers of thickness differences of the layer increases the resistance to CO2 uptake exponentially. When the boundary layer is thick then the only areas of the leaf surface that have good contact with CO2is at the leaf edge where the thickness is near zero. Further along the leaf as the BL thickness increases, photosynthetic yield falls off rapidly. As the speed of the water increases along the leaf, the BL thickness decreases, but beyond some maximum speed, other hydrodynamic forces change the nature of the BL. It becomes turbulent, presents an even bigger obstacle to CO2 absorption due to chaotic pressure fluctuations, and this degrades the performance of the leaf.

So there is a target range of velocity across the leaf, below which the BL thickness presents too much of an obstacle, and above which the flow becomes turbulent, which presents an adverse pressure obstacle for the CO2. The turbulence causes instability of CO2 availability and that's one of the factors that triggers BBA. That's why you don't want to pummel the plant leaves with high velocity flow, but you just want to stay within the target range, normally indicated by the leafe swaying in the wind. If the leaves flutter or move violently then this typically is an indication of turbulent flow which initiates pressure fluctuations on the leaf surface and that's why they flutter.

In a non-CO2 tank however, the situation is very different because the rate of photosynthesis is much slower, so we don't need to force feed the CO2 or rely on tricks to improve the CO2 uptake rate. Therefore, we don't really "need" high flow rates, but, if we are in the same target range of "speed across the leaf" then this works out just as well. Fluttering and turbulent flow also have a detrimental effect.

Your target turnover of 3X will work fine within this non-CO2 enriched regime. The only thing you have to worry about in this tank is to avoid excessive PAR which can come from any direction, so you might want to think about covering the sides as well as the background, at least in the beginning.

Cheers,
 
Re: Outdoor Planted Tank. Possible?

ceg4048 said:
In our tanks it's also not a good policy to think about flow in terms of "that algae love flow". This will undo a lot of progress because it's a misinterpretation of the forces which are at work.
Actually if you balance your "plant perspective" with an "algae perspective" you might finally be able to solve your algae on the glass issues ;)
 
Re: Outdoor Planted Tank. Possible?

Err..yeah, that sounds like it might be a really good idea...if I had any algae on my glass....If, some day, in the future, when CO2 and nutrients are outlawed (see Demolition Man featuring Sly Stallone) which then causes me to get algae on glass, then I might have to think about adopting this new perspective. In the meantime it will suffice to maintain a "keep-your-plants-max-healthy" perspective because that's why I have this hobby, i.e., to grow pretty plants, not to think about algae. :crazy:

Cheers,
 
Re: Outdoor Planted Tank. Possible?

Thanks CEG that's great info. So light is going to be my number one issue I guess. Unfortunately a large branch came down a couple of days ago, from a nearby shading tree, further exacerbating the problem.

The tank will stand free from the walls so I am setting myself a challenge. The plan is to grow thick plants around the three sides of the tank that receive most light. I plan to have have many emersed plants growing from the emerged wood but with roots trailing in to the tank along with many floating plants in the tank. The Vietnamese climate is very fertile so hopefully all the emersed plants should grow strong helping to balance the ecosystem and shade the tank.

foxfish said:
650lt is a big tank :)
What will be the dimensions?

L140 W80 H60cm. She's gonna be a beauty. :D

Here are some pics from a wood supplier out here.

143331450.TYy3uS0O.IMG_20120315_141606.jpg


143331451.3F2D3lCX.IMG_20120315_141614.jpg


143331452.YxpqfUJM.IMG_20120315_141635.jpg


143331453.CznIoDnc.IMG_20120315_141647.jpg


143331454.4UXw6RqA.IMG_20120315_141652.jpg


143331455.Fp0mIhDz.IMG_20120315_141736.jpg


143331456.zFIrhNYU.IMG_20120514_165443.jpg


143331457.KiOf8tRl.IMG_20120514_165557.jpg


143331458.wi47pZsp.IMG_20120514_165654.jpg


143331459.87xJX3xX.IMG_20120514_165800.jpg


143331460.QwybHif3.IMG_20120514_165820.jpg


143331461.0LCFKiFX.IMG_20120514_165823.jpg


Got wood?
 
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