Overstocked oak?

[Evansss]

Hello to everyone, here’s a quick run down at my first attempt at an aqua scape. I’d always seen the photos of these amazing scapes and thought that they were just not achievable. However I did a bit of Research (not enough!) and decided to have a go with some kit I already had, supplemented with a few new bits.

I wanted to build a nature style aquarium with the tank I already had. It’s a bit of an odd shape, 45x38x55cm. Aqua one oak style 85, about 94 litres but usable around 85.

The filter and decoration were established from a different tank. The filter is an all pond solutions ef250 (800l p/h) and I used 9l of new Tropica soil.

Plants are all Tropica, a mixture of pots and one two grow bought from horizon aquatics. I have some spider wood and around 8kg of millennium stone. The plant list is ;
Staurogyne repens
Tropica wendtii
Siamensis 53b
Microsorum pteropus trident
Anubias petite
Lilaeopsis brasiliensis
Java moss
Alternanthera reineckii
Limnophila sessiliflora
Microsorum pteropus latifolia

The plants seem to be doing really well, and the water parameters seem good. Ammonia 0, nitrites 0 nitrates around 5, Ph 7, kh 3 and Gh 8. I have started dosing with Tropica premium at around 2ml a day.

The first week I performed 50% daily water changes. Week 2 every other day.

The tank has pressurised co2 using a co2 supermarket dual stage regulator. Running around 1-2bps, drop checker is a nice like green. I’m running a fluval planted 3.0 at around 75% for 6 hours a day ( I started at 50% but the glass lid and 55cm meant I upped it.) lighting and co2 is all automated, and the co2 starts an hour before the lights and ends an hour before.

On day one, as I already had a seeded filter and some reused decoration, I added 4 nerite snails, 4 Amano shrimp and 4 otos. I’ve had no big algae problems (yet) and have supplemented with algae wafers/spinach. I also used a topping up sachet of nitric goop in the filter at the start.

In the end of week one and week two, I added 5 cardinal tetras for a total of 10. I was really happy with the stocking for now, and was possibly going to add a pair of dwarf gourami in the future.

If you’ve managed to stick with me so far…. Here comes the overstocking dilemma!

I arrived home yesterday to a bag of new fish bought by my partner and daughter!

They have bought 12 new tetra. 4 glowlight, 4 blue and 4 silvertips. I didn’t have the heart to tell them this would overstock the tank, or that they should really be in larger species groups. So I’ve added them for the time being. The fish shop they purchased for have been unhelpful in the past an unlikely to accept them as returns.

As it stands, all the fish are juvenile and fairly small (<2cm) so I think I can manage for now. It’s not the scape I had planned! But for the time being at least, I’m going to try and work with it.

I’ve been testing daily since the addition of new fish, and have gone back to daily water changes while the filtration catches up. Testing before the water changes, ammonia 0, nitrite 0, nitrate 5 so pretty similar to before.

I’d really appreciate people’s insight as to whether this is going to be achievable, or if I’m going to have to make some changes with regards to the stocking? And if so, will it be sooner rather than later?

I’m totally aware that the tetra species would be better suited in a longer aquarium, and how overstocked it could become when they grow.

I’m also keen to hear any tips or pointers regarding keeping the plants healthy! Will this bio load have any negative impact on the plants? Or if I’ve made any other school boy errors that I’m blissfully unaware of so far!

The photos are of day 1. Day 14 (with just cardinals) and I think about day 16 with the new fish. The photos are on an iPhone, and so it has ramped up the colours, but in the flesh they do still look nice and green with no signs of problem algae.

James

 

[MichaelJ]

Hi @Evansss, Nice tank and welcome to UKAPS!

Ok, so most would agree you added livestock to your tank too early, but that is water under the bridge now. You now have the livestock in your care and have to make the best of it. As for the stocking level I can't really 100% tell from your post how many fish/inverts you actually have in the tank; sounds like 4 nerite snails, 4 amano shrimps, 4 otos, 10 cardinals, 4 glowlight, 4 blue(?) and 4 silvertips ?... if so, that is okay for a planted 94 liter tank, but you shouldn't add more IMO. What I would suggest is that you start feeding some algae wafers (or similar) for the Oto's, Amano's and snails - there are not much for them to munch on at the moment. Also you should add more fast growing plants. You can always yank those out when the tank grows in. Your water parameters sounds fine (is this tap water ?). I can't comment on the CO2 bit as I have absolutely no experience with CO2 and I am a strong (but inconsistent ) believer in speaking from practical experience, but parroting what the expert says, doing CO2 successfully is all about consistency of delivery and proper flow On fertilizers I would switch to Tropica Specialized (or similar "complete" fertilizer) as your not getting any Nitrogen or Phosphates (which are essential food for your plants) with Tropica Premium, so your basically relying on your livestock (poop) to provide that and that's always a hit-and-miss situation. Change that.

Have patience and go slow. Stability is everything in this hobby. Just ask questions and plenty of people will be ready to help!

Enjoy!

Cheers,
Michael

 

[AlecF]

The otos, snails and shrimps will like some pepper or courgette. Place in boiling water for 5 mins, add with a cocktail stick. The otos would appreciate more hiding places, caves, some thick foliage. Also some oak leaves or similar.

 

[Hufsa]

The otos, snails and shrimps will like some pepper or courgette. Place in boiling water for 5 mins, add with a cocktail stick.

Just to add on this, make sure to remove the vegetable after 24 hours or so. Much longer than this and the risk of ammonia spike increases a fair bit as it decomposes

 

[Evansss]

Thanks for all your advice so far. I really appreciate it.

Michael, you’re correct with that stocking list. And yes, it is tap water I’m using, my tap water seems to be ok. I am using sea chem prime to dechlorinate. I’ve ordered some specialised nutrition, would you suggest dosing this exclusively, or alternating with the premium nutrition? I forgot to add, when planting I added root tabs too. I’ll try and get hold of some more fast growing stem plants, any suggestions on species?

With regards to the CO2, I’m hoping for consistency, I’ve played around with the placement of the diffuser and have what seems to be good flow. The dual stage regulator should help to keep things consistent, in addition to the system being on a timer.

I’ve blanched some spinach and pepper (all I had in the fridge) for the otos and snails, and will be sure to remove it and replace.

I’ve also repositioned a couple of rocks to open up a small cave underneath the main piece of wood. With regards to the thick foliage, I’m working on that!

Thanks again for your help, it’s greatly received

 

[Conort2]

Should be manageable stocking wise. Only issue is I’d say blue tetras can be extremely nippy, so can silver tips. Hopefully they’ll be ok but normally you need to up shoal numbers to as large as you can to control boisterous nippy fishes behaviour.

Cheers

 

[MichaelJ]

Michael, you’re correct with that stocking list. And yes, it is tap water I’m using, my tap water seems to be ok. I am using sea chem prime to dechlorinate.

Excellent - be aware however that you may be somewhat low on Magnesium content in your tap water, but at least the suggested complete fertilizers mentioned below will give you a bit extra.

I’ve ordered some specialised nutrition, would you suggest dosing this exclusively, or alternating with the premium nutrition?

Actually I would just stick to one "Complete" fertilizer such as the Specialized, TNC Complete or ATP 3/Complete... they are all quite good.

I forgot to add, when planting I added root tabs too.

Root tabs are OK to give the plants an initial boost, but long term you can just stick to a comprehensive water column dosing regime.

I’ll try and get hold of some more fast growing stem plants, any suggestions on species?

Tropica got plenty of nice options such as Limnophila for fast growing plants.

Cheers,
Michael

 

[Evansss]

So I’ve made the changes suggested, and it’s been around a week. So the tank has now been running for around 3 weeks in total.

I’ve started dosing with Tropica specialised, although i’m struggling to work out correct doses because I’m still doing large water changes every other day. I’m hoping within the next couple of weeks to get onto a weekly 50% water change, and then look more closely at nutrition. I’ll likely move to EI dosing, however am still getting my head around the concept. This whole process has been a steep learning curve! As it stands, I’m dosing 4ml a day.

I managed to rehome the blue and silver tip tetra. Although from a water quality point of view I was able to keep them, they never seemed settled and were really nippy. The tank was never calm. As soon as I removed them the remaining fish seemed a lot happier. My stocking is now 10 Cardinal tetra, 4 glow light tetra, 4 otocinclus, 4 amano shrimp and 4 nerite snails. I’m happy with this, however I may add a couple more glow lights just to bring the numbers up to the recommended minimum of 6.

I’ve also slightly adjusted the hard scape to open up some “caves” below it as suggested.

The tank seems in fair shape at the moment. There is very slight algae in places, however not at levels I’m worried about yet.

I’ve attached photos of a couple of issues. A few leaves have started to melt on my alternanthera reineckii. I’m not sure exactly why. The position within the tank is fairly shielded, however the plant does gently sway in the flow. I’ve removed the melted leaves and will keep an eye on this.

A couple of other plants have slight melt/algae issues. I’ve kept on top of this by removing the melted leaves. This one looks as if it’s been eaten!

I’ve also began extending the light period. I was on 6 hours up until now, and have increased to 6:15 hours. I’ll up this by 15 minutes a week until I’m at 8 hours. I’ve attached a photo of the light settings

CO2 has not been adjusted, as I’m aiming for consistency. The drop checker goes from a darker green at night to like green during the co2 period. However I think this is ok, as the tank is covered and doesn’t have a huge amount of surface agitation. The CO2 bubble give the tank a carbonated look during the light period, and after adjusting the filter outlet. The bubbles seem to make their way around the whole tank.

Overall I’m happy with how it is going so far. As ever, I’d appreciate any tips or advice as like I’ve said, it has been a steep learning curve over the last few weeks!

 

[mort]

I much prefer a more harmonious tank without the fish thrashing about but do have a soft spot for silver tips. They are a really underated fish but I think you need about 50 of them to get the most out of their behaviour.

The melting leaves look like it's just transitional from emerse to submerse growth, going by the new leaves looking healthy.

 

[Evansss]

Not a whole lot to report on this week. I decided to replace the failing Alternanthera reineckii, it never seemed to take hold and the melt issues just got worse. The new one looks much healthier. And now I have the tank dialled in a little bit more, I hope it’ll do better.

I’ve upped the light again by 15 minutes. But apart from this I’ve left everything else the same. The dosing is still 4ml of Tropica specialised a day, and I’ve dropped the water changes from every other day to once every 3 days. Once I have this down to once per week, I’ll look at moving to EI dosing, probably with homemade fertiliser. But I need to get my head round this first!

The fish are all doing well. For now I have decided not to add anything else stock wise, the glowlight tetra seem happy even though there are only 4 of them. I’ve been adding algae wafers and veggies for the otos and shrimp, however, in the last week or so they seem to be leaving them alone a lot more. I’m guessing this is as the tank is starting to mature, and providing them more ‘natural’ food?

The carpet is growing in, albeit slowly. All the plants are looking to be fairly healthy for the time being. The stems at the back are growing in nicely now, and are giving the scape some nice height at the back.

Algae seems to be under control for the time being. But as always I’m keeping a close eye on this!

 

[Evansss]

I’ve had a few issues crop up this week. I’m not overly concerned at the moment, but am keeping an eye out for any deterioration.

I’ve had an oily/waxy film form on the surface of the tank. I’ve tried to get rid of it with water changes and extra surface agitation, it’s better, but not gone. I’m not totally sure what’s causing it?

This was taken after a water change, if it’s left on it’s own, it joins up and completely covers the surface?

I’ve noticed what seems to be more leave litter/dead leaves floating around the tank too. I’m doing my best to remove it as I see it.

When doing the the water changes, I’ve been using a wave maker to ‘blow’ the plants and clean them. With the aqua soil I’m finding it difficult to clean everywhere as I’d usually gravel vac. This is my first attempt with aqua soil. The power head just before a water change seems to blast all the detritus into the water column allowing it to be removed/filtered.

Algae still seems to be minimal, so I guess this is a small win.

I’ve moved the drop checker down towards the substrate. I’m not sure if I’m being too impatient, however I am not seeing huge amounts of growth in a lot of plants, especially the lilaeopsis brasiliensis. This could be because they are slow growers? But I wanted to check that the CO2 level was ok at the bottom of the tank. It’s still showing a nice green colour, albeit very slightly darker that the top.

Hopefully the issues I’ve had clear up, if not I’ll look at tweaking something. But as it stands, I’ve kept everything the same as the last week, with the exception of increasing the photo period by 15 minutes.

 

[Evansss]

Since my last update I’ve been using a power head/wave maker for 10 minutes twice a day. Once before the CO2 period and once after. This seems to have completely cleared up the issue I was having with the film/surface scum. Also I thought by doing it before and after the CO2 period it shouldn’t interfere with the CO2 concentration.

The carpet is starting to grow in. I can see runners at the very front of the substrate so I’m hoping this is happening throughout, and with any luck the carpet effect will thicken up soon. I’m up to a full 8 hours photo period now so am hoping to see this improve further.

The Alternanthera reineckii has again melted right back, however, I’m going to hold on this time as this plant looks much healthier overall. The stems and newer leaves look fine so I’m hoping this will bounce back.

The stems and mid ground plants are really starting to thicken up and give the sense of depth I was hoping for with this scape. I always knew is would be hard because of the height of this tank, however I’m starting to see where this one could end up. I need to wait for the back left corner to grow in a little bit more, however I may need to add another taller plant around 50-55cm. This will allow me to eventually trim back and have a nice triangle composition with some open space on the right for the fish. I’m not sure what plant could fit the bill, but am open to suggestions?

My diffuser has started to grow some serious algae on the ceramic too, and I’m not too sure how to clean this? I was thinking probably a bleach solution and then rinse thoroughly?

Algae is still beings kept at bay by the otos, amano and snails. The tank looks really nice and clean, the water is clear and testing out great. I’m starting to get some initial signs of some sort of nutrient deficiency I think, however am not certain. A couple of the crypts are showing what I’d describe as Matt, white patches on some leaves. I’ve finished the small bottle of Tropica specialised I’d been using, and have just moved onto TNC complete while I get my head round the dry salts. However, with a tank of this size, even at EI dosing levels I’ve worked out 1L should last me 3 -4 months which I can stomach for now. I’m dosing a ‘double triple dose’ as recommended, which works out at about 7.5ml a day.

All of the Java ferns seem to be propagating, which I guess is a good sign. Overall, I’m still really happy with how this is going and hoping to overcome the issues I’ve experienced the last couple of weeks.

 

[Evansss]

Since I’ve started dosing with TNC complete at EI levels, the increased plant growth has been noticeable. The hydrophilia siamensis 53b especially has really responded well filling in some of the spaces at the back. The overall plant mass seems to have really filled out over the past 2 weeks.

The carpet is still coming in very slowly, however every week I’m noticing more and more runners and new shoots coming up from the substrate, I think that the Lilaeopsis Brasiliensis is just a really slow grower.

The older leaves on the crypts seem to be turning a reddish brown in the middle. Not sure if this is normal or not, but I quite like the relief from what is otherwise a pretty green scape.

The alternanthera has died off again. I’ve trimmed off all the melted leaves, leaving pretty much just the stems. If this doesn’t grow back I think I’ll give up with this species and try something new in that space.

I’m contemplating moving all of the limnophila sessiflora to the right hand side, and planting some Vallisneria on the left. With hindsight, if I was scaping this tank again, due to the height of it, I’d put in a more extreme gradient front to back. As at the moment I’m struggling to get that dense nature/jungle look above a certain height.

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

the increased plant growth has been noticeable.

The plants look pretty healthy.

cheers Darrel

 

[Evansss]

So this week I’ve had my first outbreak of problem algae. I think it’s BBA, and I think it’s probably my fault. Over the last month or so, I’ve slowly upped the lighting, but not the CO2. Add this to the fact that I didn’t clean the diffuser that was covered in algae for weeks, so I’m hoping that’s what’s caused whatever imbalance that’s kicked off the BBA. I’ve only seen it on the Lilaeopsis Brasiliensis at the front of the tank, and one bit on one of the crypts. I’ve just removed the affected leaves. All the bits I’ve removed have been smaller than a matchhead, but I am keeping a very close eye on this! I’ve upped the WC to twice a week so hopefully will get this under control before it becomes a massive problem. Any other tips on nipping this in the bud would be appreciated.

I’ve now cleaned the diffuser and have adjusted the co2 a little bit. I’ve ordered a ph meter to do a ph profile, but I think I probably had the co2 a bit low any way. The drop checker was always a fairly robust green, and now it’s more of a lime/light green colour. I’ve tried not to make any drastic changes as I’m aware that this can due the BBA problems. I’ve not managed to remove all of the algae on the diffuser, but the flow is much better since cleaning, as a bonus the rotala macranda I planted a few weeks back is starting to get a hold and is looking good.

Weirdly I lost a cardinal tetra who somehow managed to get itself into the drop checker fluid. I’m at a loss how they managed it, but it’s the second one that’s managed it in this tank, although the first one survived.

I’ve had to remove the AR in the centre as even the stems melted away. I’m not sure why I can’t seem to keep this plant alive, I think maybe its position in the tank is too sheltered from flow, and light. So I’ll probably replace this with something a bit more tolerant of those conditions, preferably something reddish to stand out amongst the green.

 

[Evansss]

Overnight yesterday, the drop checker suction cup failed and the glass fell to the bottom of the tank letting the liquid escape. I’m not too worried about this, it’s 2-3ml in nearly 100l of water, so I did a water change and all seems well.

The not so good side was that 4 tetras, 2 cardinal and 2 glowlight, had squeezed into the glass bulb which was now void of any liquid and all 4 died.

The drop checker has now caused 5 fish deaths… one that swam up while it was attached to the glass, and 4 when it fell off. I think I’m now in the market for a new drop checker. Be one with a thinner tube that the fish can’t fit up, and a better quality suction cup.

 

[John q]

I think I’m now in the market for a new drop checker. Be one with a thinner tube that the fish can’t fit up,

Have a look at the jbl drop checker, I think these have smaller openings and are more fish friendly. I don't use this type myself so can't comment on how reliable they are but think @Wookii may have used one in the past?

 

[Wookii]

Have a look at the jbl drop checker, I think these have smaller openings and are more fish friendly. I don't use this type myself so can't comment on how reliable they are but think @Wookii may have used one in the past?

Yeah I only use the JBL ones as they’re the easiest to read and maintain. The opening is very tiny.

 

[Evansss]

Thanks for the suggestions on drop checkers. For the time being I’ve cleaned the glass and made sure the one I have is reallly suctioned on well! But I’ve ordered a JBL one which will hopefully arrive soon.

I’ve also upgraded to an inline diffuser. The CO2 bubbles are now visibly much smaller, and also more distributed around the tank. With the in tank diffuser, when I upped the flow of CO2, the bubbles just got bigger. However, as you can see now, the bubbles are almost a mist.

The BBA situation seems to have calmed down. I’ve lowered the light a touch, and now the CO2 is more consistent. Initially I manually removed the BBA, and increased my water changes to 2x50% per week(well actually 8 days due to my work shifts).

I’ve replaced the lost stock of tetra too. So now have 6 x Cardinal, 6 x rummy nose and 6 x glowlight. Probably still a bit overstocked…

One of the crypts I have has really changed colour. It is now almost white with red patches, but is still growing fresh leaves. I’m not sure if this is on its way out, of if this colouration is normal?

The other crypts from the same initial bunch have gone slightly red. But this one is more in direct light. So maybe that’s the cause? The rest look something like this

The tank is looking good, and I’ve removed the fast growing limnophilia seesiflora from the back as the hygrophilia siamensis is growing in great. Here’s a couple of photos, including an unashamed filtered photo.

 

[Evansss]

Not much change since the last update. I’ve moved some of the larger crypts back a bit to give a more defined foreground. I’ve also replanted a few of the S. Repens and other foreground plants to give a mixed carpet effect with the L. Brasiliensis.