PFK glassware blog

Discussion in 'General Planted Tank Discussions' started by George Farmer, 25 Feb 2009.

  1. George Farmer

    George Farmer Founder Staff Member

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  2. LondonDragon

    LondonDragon Administrator Staff Member

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    Good discussion hehe I am not a fan of glassware but I guess its because I haven't got a rimless tank, if I did I would prefer the glassware as it look a lot better than any other pipework. But since I have never used any glassware other than CO2 diffusors I can't really say much about it.

    All I know is my diffusor has been in the tank for about 3 months and still doesn't need a clean. If you keep your maintnance up to scratch then I guess your glassware will stain resonably clean and algae free.
     
  3. GreenNeedle

    GreenNeedle Member

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    2,706
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    Lincoln UK
    I think Jeremy's lost the plot there a little. He must love the old style 'discreet' green plastic. Does he not mean 'gawdy'

    That glassware is really dirty and as for the diffuser!!! Someone needs to step up their maintenace. My Rhinox is 2 years old and has never look liked that so I can only assume the user has problems elsewhere to cause this!!! I've never broken lilys which have been in for 18 months and clean them monthly and they don't go green ever!!! They get brown from muck but so does the hose.

    The only thing I agree with is they reduce flow a bit but the 'tight bend' is not as bad as the connectors on plastic setup which in Tetratec's case is square corners!!!

    I put my diffuser 1 third up in the tank not for aesthetics but because then the flow hits the bubbles at 2 thirds up the tank and blows the bubbles

    And if you buy the rock hard CO2 hose it doesn't go white opaque. However it is hard to get on and off the diffuser so I use the slightly softer rhinox tubing for that section.

    Pointless rant for the sake IMO. Reduces flow yes. Anything else just silly comments. Some people just like to moan about things ('says me' :lol:)

    AC
     
  4. Dan Crawford

    Dan Crawford Founder Staff Member

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    Daventry, Northants
    If you have a look at the updated blog you'll see who supplied the images ;) and he was asked to supply those images and altered his methods accordingly (filled with water and floated it in a bowl for 3 days under 160w)
    The inlet was impossible to get off due to a number of reasons, hence the break and the state of it. Dunno why i keep such things but it certainly payed off in the long run, my Dad would be proud "i'll use that one day" :lol:
    I can't believe i aided him in his attempt to "smash" glassware but i think we put up a good fight?
     
  5. Dave Spencer

    Dave Spencer Member

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    1,389
    Location:
    N. Wales
    As soon Jeremy make one single point that I find slightly relevant, I shall stop using glass inlets and outlets as the only hardware inside my tanks, and mention this on the blog.

    Why does he not have a dig at people who shoe horn tank busting fish in to aquariums with a couple of plant pots in the bottom?

    At least aquascapers try to improve their skills with every new scape they set up, including the aesthetics of hardware. Aquascaped opti white tanks rule!!!

    No disrespect to Jeremy, but his opinion on this subject carries far less weight than George`s, or anybody that tries improve the look of their aquascape for that matter.

    He doesn`t understand why aesthetics are important, and probably never will. :D

    Dave.
     
  6. beeky

    beeky Member

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    879
    Location:
    Chippenham, Wiltshire
    I've always maintained that glass inlets restrict the flow too much (Anyone got one of these?). They do look nicer, but I'd rather have a plastic strainer in my tanks, unless it's a nano and heavy filttration is less of an issue.

    As for lily pipes, they look better than plastic outlets as well and may have better flow than a single outlet. I've found if I've tried to hide an outlet effectively, it generally leads to flow obstruction, so if you're going to see it then make it nicer to look at I say. I'd rather have an inline CO2 reactor or bubble it into the intake though rather than have a diffuser, which I think are distracting and I wouldn't want the hassle of keeping it clean.

    Having said all that, I don't have any glassware as I'm too tight to pay for it!
     
  7. altaaffe

    altaaffe Member

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    309
    Location:
    Thornhill, Egremont, Cumbria
    I think I'm probably with most here - in that I like to see the glassware in my tank, especially one with no stem plants. However, I have had a problem with a glass inlet recently in that it was not allowing enough water to the filter which being an Eheim was managing to grab plenty of gas and providing gas locks inside the filter. Unfortunatley, I've had to go back to the plastic, wider strainer to alleviate the problem.
     
  8. mjenner

    mjenner Member

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    111
    Location:
    Chessington, Surrey
    Wow, it is getting quite heated over on the PFK forums!

    Personally, I can see the benefits of both, particularly in the "artier" planted tanks where the equipment would be visible.

    I'm paranoid about breaking any of my glassware, so far I've only put the diffusers in too, but whilst it's still clean, I'm pretty sure the glassware would look nicest, but for practicality, I think plastic would have to win, and it's what I've eventually gone with in my tank, I think the spray-bar would be more effective at distributing the flow in my tank than a lily pipe in my case.

    I might try some glassware on my little cube as it's rimless and I think it might look nicer than it's current internal filter, providing I can find a nice small external filter.

    It is too expensive generally though, especially if you're buying glassware in this country (I'd recommend the hong-kong eBay specials).

    Just my 2p on the subject. :)

    Matt
     
  9. Steve Smith

    Steve Smith Member

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    4,428
    Location:
    Leamington Spa, UK.
    I have some of the cheaper AquaticMagic "Flo" 12mm tubes waiting for me at the post office. My first glass inlet/outlets. Unfortunately, the tank I was going to set up and use these on will now most likely have an EX1200 on it with larger tubing. Doh!

    I think Jeremy is going a little over board. Some things I don't really see the point in, like glass bubble counters/check valves. They really are for show in my opinion. You can quite happily hide these with your CO2 bottle out of the way :) As for inlets/outlets I personally think they look very attractive, and do blend into the glass box they're attached too! Plastic has it's place, but can look pretty ugly. Trying to hide plastic inlets can of course hinder the scape if you're tied to trying to hide them with plants.

    One final observation - Jeremy/his supporters go on about adding stuff inline to hide them but, of course, the more inline stuff you have, the more "frictional loss" you encounter. Surely they must realise this?

    Form over function is unfair. As George, Dan and the rest of you have posted the glass objects do have plenty of function. They just happen to look nice in the process ;)
     
  10. George Farmer

    George Farmer Founder Staff Member

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    Hi Steve,

    Obviously you'll need 16/12mm reducers.

    I've found the best way to minimise flow loss with reducers is to fit them near the glassware itself.

    So you have 12mm glassware with a small length of 12mm tubing on each piece, then the reducer, then the rest of the tubing regular (16mm) filter hose to the filter.

    Flow loss is minimal this way. I'm using 12mm inlet (Cal Aqua) and 12mm outlet (Aquatic Magic) with 16mm hosing this way and the flow is so strong I have to turn it down otherwise it uproots my plants! Mind you, it is a 1550lph rated filter in a 60 litre tank!
     
  11. plantbrain

    plantbrain Expert

    Messages:
    1,949
    I look at trade offs for each method and explore each. This is the only fair method os assessment.

    I've run the gambit on CO2 and DIY modifications, various methods.
    They all work but have certain trade offs. I have switched out my mazzei ventui and other high powered systems for CO2 to try disc once again.

    The mazzei is a bit large, requires higher pressure flow rates etc, it is also subjected to the filter clogging, all in line systems have this tradeoff/failing which can and does reduce CO2 flow into the tank.

    I also did not like the noise if I added another pump, nor the electric bill increasing.
    Disc have to be placed in the current, which is not always asethetic depending on design of the tank etc.

    I think the CO2 mist is a very strong method, and disc, mazzei, needle or mesh wheel methods are the most effective.
    These can be added in conjunction with a CO2 reactor etc or not.

    CO2 is cheap, electric is not, I want the most out of my filter and flow, disc require no energy other than the solenoid valve.

    So if I use another 10% more CO2, it is still well worth it for electric savings.
    I still have to clean something no matter what, but this does not affect the CO2 as much and the disc is out there where I can keep an eye on it.

    I've used disc and most methods several times in the past and have been CO2 reactor DIY obsessed for a decade or so.
    Nutrients are rather simple and easy to address for me.
    Light and CO2 are less so.

    So that is where I focused most of my own effort.
    Tilex bathroom cleaner works best for cleaning the disc, much better than plain bleach

    Regards,
    Tom Barr
     
  12. plantbrain

    plantbrain Expert

    Messages:
    1,949
    I got them in a froth already over the Redfield ratio 8)

    I better lay low when I'm telling the mods to stay "on topic" and not take it personally.
    That's their job, not mine :lol:

    Regards,
    Tom Barr
     
  13. GreenNeedle

    GreenNeedle Member

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    2,706
    Location:
    Lincoln UK

    Dan - Are you saying you intentionally got those lily pipes algaeifed and broken for the article when asked? If so may I ask Why? and what does that prove?

    I have the cheap AM ones. As I say I clean them every month. They take a bit of removing from the hose but not a problem. I use the tip of my thumb to force the end of the hose down a little moving slowly back and forth and then once it's moved a mm or so down I do a 'chinese burn' on it and it comes off. Maybe the cheap ones are thicker glass than the expensive ones ;)

    AC
     
  14. JamesM

    JamesM Member

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    The BIG End, South Wales
    I don't have time for them. Another over priced gimmick.
     
  15. George Farmer

    George Farmer Founder Staff Member

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    Location:
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    I disagree, James.

    You can pick up relatively inexpensive sets - both lily pipes and glass/ceramic diffusers, from various online sources these days. Some glass/ceramic diffusers are far less expensive than the alternatives. Some glass lily pipe sets are less expensive than spray bar kits.

    Also, for me, something that makes my aquascape more attractive is not a gimmick. Especially when the filter inlet and outlet cannot be hidden. Lily pipes are the ideal solution for many with such set ups.
     
  16. Ed Seeley

    Ed Seeley Member

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    3,262
    Location:
    Nottingham
    Or put a short piece of 12/16mm pipe on the fitting and then put the 16/22mm pipe over that. Nice water-tight fit with the only reduction in diameter being at the fitting itself.
     
  17. JamesM

    JamesM Member

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    Location:
    The BIG End, South Wales
    Diffusers, fair enough... although I do prefer the inline method as it seems more effective.

    Can you point me in the direction of cheap intake and lilly pipes? Or even better, a glass spraybar that doesn't cost the earth and is easy to clean?

    I certainly can see the appeal in some tanks, but they're not really me... I'm not a fan of open top tanks either though. That said, if the price was better I'd consider trying them at least.

    I actually emailed Cal Aqua about a plastic/glass hybrid a long time ago - plastic on the outside, with glass only below water level. Never heard anything back though :rolleyes:
     
  18. GreenNeedle

    GreenNeedle Member

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    2,706
    Location:
    Lincoln UK
    Especially when we need to get these items where they will work best within the tank rather than being forced to 'hide' them away :) I have mine in the front (in view) not because I want to show off but because that is where I found the best place to have them to get the best out of the filtration.

    AC
     
  19. samc

    samc Member

    Messages:
    1,381
    i am going to get a cheap set when i set my new iwagumi up. For tanks like iwagumis i think they are a good idea as it impossible to hide them
     
  20. john starkey

    john starkey Member

    Messages:
    1,593
    Location:
    worcester
    Hi Guys,
    just my two peneth,
    i think its a pointless childish squabble,which will only do harm to the shops that sell glass ware,
    regards john.
     

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