Phosphate Haters

Discussion in 'General Planted Tank Discussions' started by SuperColey1, 21 Mar 2008.

  1. SuperColey1

    SuperColey1 Member

    Messages:
    2,677
    Location:
    Lincoln UK
    Is there an upsurge in the old 'phosphates cause algae' thought?

    On TFF there seem to be increasing numbers that are giving this advice to which I and several others disagre with on the posts.

    It has got to the point now where I am getting several pms a day on there from people belittling me. lol

    These are todays (so far) I have removed the senders name for obvs reasons.

    pm#1
    'You along with others have often stated that phosphates don't cause algae. Could you please provide some references from real peer reviewed scientific journals - something with a high impact factor like Nature would be good, though a more field specific journal would be better, but even The New Scientist would be acceptable.'

    pm#2 (regarding me using Tom Barr's research as a reference point'
    'Ok, so now the scientific community is meant to accept the research of someone that doesn't publish to peer reviewed journals? On what basis, the fanboys say so? Get real.

    Its easy to make ad homie attacks when you don't have the proof to back yourself up, though its somewhat laughably ironic that many of the so-called 'new school' approaches to planted aquaria have more than a few parallels with some Victorian approaches to terestial gardening.

    Oh, and if I'm old school that must make you the prat that puts four exhausts on the back of your Citroen Saxo, 'coz me mate said it'd go faster' duh!

    If you have the credible research use it to prove it otherwise your just rambling like a religious zelot'


    I just replied that I don't have a saxo, I have a fiesta with no spoiler and 1 exhaust. lol

    The point I make is that there does seem to be an increase in the posts on TFF stating the old phosphate removal theory!!!

    What do you think

    Andy
     
  2. Garuf

    Garuf Member

    Messages:
    4,959
    Location:
    Leeds.
    I've noticed that, I'll be deleting my membership, that forum is dead anyway.
     
  3. ceg4048

    ceg4048 Expert/Global Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    8,952
    Location:
    Chicago, USA
    Hi Andy,
    Yes it's the same old group of people that have been hanging on to these concepts for years. Even Sears & Conlin who trumpeted the phosphate limiting technique and PMDD eventually came around after Barr's data showed the opposite was true. You can go into just about any LFS and ask the attendant what to do about algae and the response will be to use a phosphate remover. :rolleyes: The only thing you can do is guide people towards our board and towards the Barr Report and show the images of what you have been able to achieve by not limiting PO4. The problem is that biochemistry and plant physiology are so complicated and have so many variables that it's easy to get wrapped around the axle and to draw invalid conclusions. There is not much you can do mate.

    Barr actually references a lot of his work with posted scientific journal, so these claims of undocumented hypotheses is not accurate. I follow the links to the references but they are super-tough reading. I normally download the journal articles he references and study them for a while. If I struggle with the data or format of report he is more than happy to help clarify.

    I love the saxo comment. I'm going to have to look for an opportunity to use that line at least once a month. :lol:

    Cheers,
     
  4. SuperColey1

    SuperColey1 Member

    Messages:
    2,677
    Location:
    Lincoln UK
    Garuf-
    I wouldn't say it is dead at all. there are quite a few people on there that are quite open to advice.

    Its also the forum where a lot of us started and got us to where we are now so I do still go on it a lot.

    Ceg-
    I liked that comment too this is the whole reply I gave to this comment:

    As for the Citroen Saxo comment. You have a hilariously way off conception of me as being a flash boy racer lol

    In fact I have a 2003 1.4 Fiesta Zetec in a metallic navy blue. It is as it was when new with no mods apart from the airfreshener and 2 child seats.

    I don't use the car much at all preferring to use my road racer and I cycle everywhere including 6½ miles to work and 6½ miles back everyday.

    So not the boy racer. more of a respectable hard working husband and father of two lovely boys that doesn't jump in the car to go round the shop and definately not to show off to the girls.

    I am not a fan of text messages preferring to use phones for their intended use of conversing.

    I do not go around with jeans around my thighs, showing off my boxers, with baggy tracksuit tops on and I don't own a baseball cap.

    I have no gold chains or bracelets and apart from my Seiko watches own no other jewellery.


    I then fuelled the member a little by critising the fish stockings in his 4 tanks so I eagerly await a lambasting now he ,he.

    Andy
     
  5. zig

    zig Member

    Messages:
    686
    Location:
    Dublin Ireland
    Well its really up to the moderators to set the tone on any forum I think, obviously they cannot be there all the time but their thinking or good practice usually permeates through the forum to other members and the knowledge base grows. You got to remember though that TFF is primarily a fish forum so this is where a lot of thinking comes from plus conflicting reports from certain writers in PFK mag etc so you can't blame them really. Ask the poster to ask the question here or any other dedicated plant forum and that should change their tune.

    The "same old group of people" as quoted by ceg is 90% of fishkeepers I would imagine.
     
  6. ceg4048

    ceg4048 Expert/Global Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    8,952
    Location:
    Chicago, USA
    Love it.. :lol: :lol:

    Cheers,
     
  7. Garuf

    Garuf Member

    Messages:
    4,959
    Location:
    Leeds.
    Andy, I started on the planted tank, in comparison tff was the nicer forum but now its reached a point where its always the same question again and again and again, normally why are my plants dying, is this aquatic and what is this algae? I've not replied to a post in no end of visits, mainly because they're all questions that have already been asked and answered a million times before. For me I just don't enjoy going on there any more, since George left it went into free fall. The number of questions asked reflects this decline, I remember there being a page of new threads everyday, now it would take at least 4 to get to that number.

    I agree with who ever just said 90% of fish keepers.
     
  8. SuperColey1

    SuperColey1 Member

    Messages:
    2,677
    Location:
    Lincoln UK
    I agre TFF is not as it was and yes there are a lot of questions being asked over and over which is a little annoying but I put this down to the fact that the planted scene is taking off at the moment whereas when I first started going in there it was quite a small section really.

    Loads of posters still but nowadays there are loads of posts from people who are just starting out.

    I remember when I started I was under the impression I need to try and get up to 4WPG (Just like you were I think) until I started seeing some scapes with much lower lighting still growing the supposedly high light plants. This as you all know sent me down the road of reducing my lighting rather than increasing and Im glad I did.

    There are still loads of threads on there from newbies being told they need 3-4WPG to which I jump in with both feet ready for a pasting by the old schoolers. lol

    Andy
     
  9. Garuf

    Garuf Member

    Messages:
    4,959
    Location:
    Leeds.
    I wasn't told to reach 4wpg, ohhhhhh no on a 10 gallon, I was told to stick as many power compacts over it as possible, my aim was 10+wpg.
    Yeah I know how it is, I agree with you on the all being newb's thing I think the forum needs to set out a revised guide to set up.

    I plan on reducing my light, only thing is I foolishly bought 4 36powercompacts that I'll need to use before other wise I'll just be miffed at wasting money.
     
  10. Steve Smith

    Steve Smith Member

    Messages:
    4,428
    Location:
    Leamington Spa, UK.
    I tend to post the odd reply in the planted section to the basic "n00b" questions which I know the answer too. I mainly use TFF for fish related posts and the buy/sell section these days - I've just started off with Livebearers :?
     
  11. SuperColey1

    SuperColey1 Member

    Messages:
    2,677
    Location:
    Lincoln UK
    replying to the Citroen Saxo comment the pm'r says this:

    I was actually alluding to the excessive use of toys with dubious worth within the general and planted aquarist population as a whole. Rather than accusing you of beiong a boy racer. That said I doubt I was any further off than your 'old school' comment.

    I guess I should throw the UV, CO2 DC etc out now. lol

    Andy
     
  12. Ed Seeley

    Ed Seeley Member

    Messages:
    3,262
    Location:
    Nottingham
    Any interesting speices? Always been fascinated by the more unusual wild types and species but never really kept any!
     
  13. Steve Smith

    Steve Smith Member

    Messages:
    4,428
    Location:
    Leamington Spa, UK.
    Red laced snakeskin guppies, and some leopard endlers. Got some pics and stuff over here at TFF :)
     
  14. Ed Seeley

    Ed Seeley Member

    Messages:
    3,262
    Location:
    Nottingham
    Very nice, especially the guppies. I really love the wild green swordtails and huge wild green sailfin mollies. Unfortunately never had the space or right water to do them justice so I'll leave them in other people's tanks until I have a fish room. Then they can go with the Tanganyikan cichlids in some hard water tanks.
     
  15. TDI-line

    TDI-line Member

    Messages:
    1,535
    Location:
    Yaxley, Peterborough
    I have a saxo. :D ;)
     
  16. nry

    nry Member

    Messages:
    1,239
    Location:
    Cumbria, UK
    I had a Vauxhall Nova 1.3SR with a 4" exhaust. Yeah, I know, stupid choice of exhaust! Nice car though, high-lift cam, 4-into-1 manifold with straight through centre section, free-flow air filter. I miss it :( Roll on mid-life crisis Impreza Turbo ;)
     
  17. SuperColey1

    SuperColey1 Member

    Messages:
    2,677
    Location:
    Lincoln UK
    I have a Tifosi - Columbus CK3 with mavic CMX33 rims and deore hubs.
    Vittoria blue kevlar tyres, campag chorus headset, cannondale stems.
    blah blah. I use the bike more than the car as I said earlier. lol

    Andy
     
  18. nry

    nry Member

    Messages:
    1,239
    Location:
    Cumbria, UK
    Had a Manitou full suspension (based on Manitou II elastomer only, 2.5" travel, wow!) many years back, mavic ceramic rims, deore XT groupset, lovely...got a bit old and worn out though, I had it 2nd hand, originally £3000+ new, I paid £1400 then sold it many years later for £150! Blimey...deflation of what! Swapped it for an Orange a few years ago which has ~30 miles on the clock, been in the shed and never used, one day, honest!
     
  19. Themuleous

    Themuleous Member

    Messages:
    4,126
    Location:
    Aston, Oxfordshire
    TFF has gone downhill and its a massive shame. First AE started a forum and that hit TFF a bit, now Ukaps and very few of the UK's best planty people visit it. I still try to do my bit as its were I first started and I think I owe it, but I cant guarantee I'll be there for ever, esp if Ukaps keeps on growing! Ok its mostly fish based but most people get into the hobby via the fish first route, so its normal that they venture down to the plant forum at some stage, I like to be there to help them start and to point them in the direction of Ukaps (on the sly obviously).

    I also want to support Llj, she's cool and I'd hate to see the forum vanish now shes a mod.

    Just my £0.02 worth.

    Sam
     
  20. Sandra

    Sandra Newly Registered

    Messages:
    21
    im not a member of tff but am on tfc. I have just posted a message there, as am getting fed up with the pages not loading.
     

Share This Page

Facebook Page
Twitter Page
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice