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Phosphate is the king of the planted tank

Zeus.

Fertz Calc Meister
Joined
1 Oct 2016
Messages
4,601
Location
Yorkshire,UK
Hi all, I'm just a <"failed scientist">, but failure has given me more of a veneer of knowledge, mainly because I've worked on a lot of other people projects.

Completely disagree with your comments

A 'failed scientist' is someone who thinks they know all the answers and trys to convince others they know more than they do.
But a 'true scientist' is realistic about what they know and doesn't try to convince others otherwise

Be good at what you good at and out your hands up if if its beyond you- Open, Honest and Transparent as that's good science
 

robinj

Member
Joined
9 Aug 2018
Messages
61
Location
Europe
Sorry to resurrect older topic.
But if I understand it well, it could be the missing part between EI and Lean dosing. I got the simple rational behind EI but I never got the lean dosing cause they are two contradicting systems IMHO.
The limitation for the EI with high light is the CO2 distribution and concentration. But tanks with lean dosing works too also with high lights. Tweaking CO2 with EI is big deal, we have koralias etc just to get that flow. On the other hand, they are tanks with under rated filter flow,no pumps, lean dosing and still looking great.
If P is limiting the CO2 demand, even with high light, I see it as argument for EI with limited KH2PO4 dosing. Am I getting it rigtht?
 

dw1305

Expert
UKAPS Team
Joined
7 Apr 2008
Messages
13,974
Location
nr Bath
Hi all,
If P is limiting the CO2 demand, even with high light,
The simple answer is <"we just don't know">. A long with <"PAR"> and carbon (C) any one of the fourteen mineral elements can be <"Liebig's limiting nutrient">.
........ It is back to the <"assembly line aspect"> of <"Liebig's law of the minimum">, adding more of a non-limiting nutrient doesn't give you any more growth........
Plants need most of the three macronutrients nitrogen (N), potassium (K) and phosphorus (P), so that makes them the most likely to be deficient, along with some special cases, like <"magnesium (Mg)"> and <"iron (Fe)">.

Phosphate is often the limiting nutrient in both aquatic and terrestrial ecosystems, and now that W. Europe, N. America <"is awash with it"> one of the <"prime cause of eutrophication">.
I got the simple rational behind EI but I never got the lean dosing cause they are two contradicting systems IMHO.
They are. <"I use lean dosing"> and it definitely is a viable option, but <"it does limit what you can grow">.

I don't see any issue with playing around with the levels of PO4---, phosphorus is <"highly mobile within the plant"> so if it became deficient, as soon as it was available again you would get a fairly instant growth response.

cheers Darrel
 

Zeus.

Fertz Calc Meister
Joined
1 Oct 2016
Messages
4,601
Location
Yorkshire,UK
but I never got the lean dosing cause they are two contradicting systems
But how is ADA dosing regime truly lean dosing per se, as ADA aquasoil (AS) is packed with nutrients and most rescape after about a year when the AS is exhausted of nutrients 🤷‍♂️, maybe it is just a successful marketing ploy to buy into the whole ADA regime/products and buying multiple ferts that are basically just water ;)
 

robinj

Member
Joined
9 Aug 2018
Messages
61
Location
Europe
But how is ADA dosing regime truly lean dosing per se, as ADA aquasoil (AS) is packed with nutrients and most rescape after about a year when the AS is exhausted of nutrients 🤷‍♂️, maybe it is just a successful marketing ploy to buy into the whole ADA regime/products and buying multiple ferts that are basically just water ;)
That's a good point. I didn't assume the soil. Obviously, we have missing data. Something like sand based tanks, one with EI and second with lean could show more. I dose EI myself and already grown up from buying diluted KNO3 for 1000 x of original price of the powder.
 

Zeus.

Fertz Calc Meister
Joined
1 Oct 2016
Messages
4,601
Location
Yorkshire,UK
Obviously, we have missing data.
And never likely to get it if it doesn't help their sales, what tobacco company ever released the data on their products to show the harm its does, same with sugar companies.
 

dw1305

Expert
UKAPS Team
Joined
7 Apr 2008
Messages
13,974
Location
nr Bath

dw1305

Expert
UKAPS Team
Joined
7 Apr 2008
Messages
13,974
Location
nr Bath
Hi all,
And never likely to get it if it doesn't help their sales, what tobacco company ever released the data on their products to show the harm its does, same with sugar companies.
A <"bit of honesty"> all around would help.
@Zeus. and @Hanuman have taken all the fun out of this, by providing a spreadsheet that provides all the answers at the click of the button. They have removed all the mystery and totally deskilled potion making, it is an absolute disgrace and they should be very pleased with themselves.
The work @Zeus. and @Hanuman have done with the <"IFC calculator"> unfortunately just lays bare the <"disingenuous disinformation"> that appear to be the modus operandi of a lot of companies. It has really left them <"nowhere to hide">.

cheers Darrel
 
Last edited:

JoshP12

Member
Thread starter
Joined
8 Dec 2019
Messages
748
Location
Canada
Sorry to resurrect older topic.
But if I understand it well, it could be the missing part between EI and Lean dosing. I got the simple rational behind EI but I never got the lean dosing cause they are two contradicting systems IMHO.
The limitation for the EI with high light is the CO2 distribution and concentration. But tanks with lean dosing works too also with high lights. Tweaking CO2 with EI is big deal, we have koralias etc just to get that flow. On the other hand, they are tanks with under rated filter flow,no pumps, lean dosing and still looking great.
If P is limiting the CO2 demand, even with high light, I see it as argument for EI with limited KH2PO4 dosing. Am I getting it rigtht?
Sorry I missed this one.

This thread illustrates my most recent thoughts:

Thread 'Everyone is right ...'
Everyone is right ...
 
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