Planted Tank - open to sugestion

Discussion in 'Plant Help' started by johnb, 4 Mar 2008.

  1. johnb

    johnb Member

    Messages:
    52
    Location:
    London
    Hi

    This is my tank setup (buying in mid march)

    Tank
    Rena Aqualife 200 x 50
    Dimensions: 201cm W x 51cm x D 70,5 cm H
    Volume in litres: 717
    Volume in imperial gallons: 157

    Heating
    2x300W Heater / thermostat

    Filtration
    1550 l/h External Filter Rena Filstar xP4
    Media - Coarse Sponge, Fine sponge, Ceramic bio balls then filter floss to polish

    CO2
    JBL Proflora CO2 Set Profi 1
    http://www.zooplus.co.uk/shop/fish/tech ... /co2/19466

    Lighting
    Currently 4 x 58W (232w) – (this is going to be update to an Arcadia luminare. T8 )

    Substrate
    Bottom - Eco-Complete – approx 250lbs to achieve 3 inch depth

    So the big question what to plant , is there such a thing as a plant planner ?

    Thoughts advice appreciated.

    Regards

    John B
     
  2. TDI-line

    TDI-line Member

    Messages:
    1,535
    Location:
    Yaxley, Peterborough
    Hi John and welcome.

    You will have a very similiar size tank to myself and Vase (worth following some of his threads).

    I have run the JBL CO2 system, but you may find the diffusers struggles to cover your size tank.

    Would you be running 4 external filters? Could you not cut this down to 2, one at each end, would cut running / purchase costs down too.

    As to what to plant, you will find that you will need lots of fast growing plants to combat algae and you willl be surprised at how many plants you will need!

    Plant choice is down to you but maybe worth visting a few of your local fish shops to see what is available.

    Good luck.
     
  3. nickyc

    nickyc Member

    Messages:
    208
    Location:
    Nottingham
    Hi John[

    quote="TDI-line"]Plant choice is down to you but maybe worth visting a few of your local fish shops to see what is available.[/quote]

    Or look at pics of lots of other tanks and keep a note of the plants you like. I don't know where you're based John, but I haven't come across that many LFS with good plants. There are quite a few online suppliers which increase the choice. Agree with TDI though - to start with just get a load of fast growing plants in to avoid algae and then you can start to introduce the plants you choose

    Look forward to seeing how it develops
     
  4. ceg4048

    ceg4048 Expert/Global Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    8,952
    Location:
    Chicago, USA
    Hi,
    I would take a serious look at filtration. Ideally you'd want to turnover 2100 liters per hour which means, due to internal resistance, a filter rating of between 4000-7000 liters per hour. You could get into the ballpark with two or three Fluval FX5's. Also I would use the Eheim Effisubstrat (or it's Fluval Equivalent) in lieu of sponges or bioballs which don't have enough surface area for bacteria colonization.

    For this tank size I would also highly recommend that you reconsider you CO2 equipment choice. It's absolutely pointless using a 1/2 kilo bottle of CO2 for a 700 liter tank. JBL are deluded if they think that unit can service even a 500L tank. :wideyed:

    You'll need to get at least a 25Kg CO2 cylinder to be serviceable on this tank, and it would be more efficient if you moved the reactor/diffuser outside the tank.

    No one can suggest plants to you because only you know what you like. Some plants are easier to grow than others. As stated, browse the forum and have a look at aquascaping ideas and the plants in them. Also have a look at the Tropica website and their catalog http://www.e-pages.dk/tropica/1/

    Cheers,
     
  5. stevet

    stevet Member

    Messages:
    80
    Location:
    London
    A 600g bottle used to last me two to 4 weeks on my 400 litres tank! This was with using a reasonably efficient rhinox diffuser below a filter outlet. Above comment is right though, i would go external reactor for this size tank. I just about get away with one ceramic diffuser.
     
  6. ceg4048

    ceg4048 Expert/Global Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    8,952
    Location:
    Chicago, USA
    Hi stevet,
    The CO2 consumption target is really a function of the type of plants that you are growing, the level of lighting, the target growth rate and the margin of safety desired between healthy plants and proliferation of algae. There are some very robust plants that do fine with limited CO2 under moderate lighting, but as you increase the lighting and as variety of plants widens, it's then necessary to up the concentrations to accommodate these plants. I guess I should have qualified my statement to that effect, however, basically, within the limits of fish tolerance, more CO2 means fewer problems. I hate cleaning algae, and I certainly hate cleaning algae from a 700 liter tank ten time more that cleaning it from a 70 liter :wideyed:

    I guess I'm a CO2 junkie. :(

    Cheers,
     
  7. johnb

    johnb Member

    Messages:
    52
    Location:
    London
    So which CO2

    Thanks for all the advice, finally im getting there (i hope)

    I am struggling to find the right CO2 system and all the bits I may need, regulator etc, now im not say money is no object but I dont want to skimp on this and am happy to pay for the right kit. So ideally I want to by an all in 1 set so I dont have to get a bti from here and a bit from there etc.

    Oh are they noisy I can place the system in an adjoing cupboard if I run pipe work for about 3 metres - i assuem that will affect performace, if so I wont do it like that

    Im open to recommendations

    Regards

    John B
     
  8. ceg4048

    ceg4048 Expert/Global Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    8,952
    Location:
    Chicago, USA
    Hi John,
    CO2 injection produces near zero noise levels so only put the system in a cupboard if you don't like looking at it. A 3 meter tube will affect the amount of time it takes for bubbles to start being ejected when you first turn the system on in the morning. Once the line is pressurized it functions like any other.

    I don't know of any all in one that fit's the bill for this size tank. If you want to run out every two weeks to have your 500G bottle filled then go for it, but that will get tiresome in a hurry. I suppose you could get that kit and then replace the cylinder with a Fire Extinguisher, but you still have the problem of a very weak diffuser in that kit. I feel the convenience of this all in one will cost you more anguish than you might get buying the right bits in the first place.

    Cheers,
     
  9. johnb

    johnb Member

    Messages:
    52
    Location:
    London
    Thanks ok so so cant do all in one (such is life)

    Im not new to fish but am new to CO2 im unsure what bits I actually need, is there an idiots guide here to which bits I need ? or better still based on tank size can someone recommend ?

    Regards

    John B
     
  10. SuperColey1

    SuperColey1 Member

    Messages:
    2,668
    Location:
    Lincoln UK
    Get your regulator, solenoid valve, needle valve, bubble counter, NRV and hose from Aquarianversand on ebay (German)

    LINK TO AQUARIANVERSAND

    Then go to BOC or Air Products and setup an account to rent a pub size bottle of CO2. Will be something like £3 each month and then when it runs out they will swap it just charging you extra for the gas.

    Then you will need to search for your reactor. Someone else on here should be able to guide you on that.

    Finally get a few drop checkers and 4dKH water and bromo blue so that you can have visible CO2 checks in various areas of the tank. AquaEssentials.co.uk sell these 3.

    Andy
     
  11. johnb

    johnb Member

    Messages:
    52
    Location:
    London
    CO2 - there is a lot to it ?

    Thanks for the CO2 info -i did not realise there was so much to i, now im lazy and really want to buy all in one if i can - I found this

    Dennerle Classic CO2 Exclusive 600L

    http://www.aquaticbiotope.co.uk/Scripts ... oduct=1009

    They do have the next versio but the price doubles and that may be over the top ?

    Dennerle Classic CO2 Exclusive 5000L (DEN010)


    Thoughts appreciated


    John B
     
  12. Joecoral

    Joecoral Member

    Messages:
    694
    Location:
    Neath, South Wales
    unfortunately it still has a 500g CO2 cyclinder, same as the kit you previously mentioned, which smiply wont last more than a couple of weeks on a tank that size
     
  13. ceg4048

    ceg4048 Expert/Global Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    8,952
    Location:
    Chicago, USA
    Yes, I'm with Joecoral on this. The first kit you listed was 60 quid cheaper and is essentially the same equipment. Have you tought about refills? There's nothing wrong with buying this kit. It's got verything you need, but as SuperColey1 says you will best be served by setting up a BOC account in which case you'll be able to get larger cylinders.

    Dennerle's propaganda machine must have been working overtime to come up with the "...Silver Edition CO2 Cylinder" :wideyed: I wonder if Silver Edition entitles you to a free bowl of soup or even a free refill. :D

    Cheers,
     
  14. TDI-line

    TDI-line Member

    Messages:
    1,535
    Location:
    Yaxley, Peterborough
    Propaganda, propaganda, oh yes, i bought that one.

    Infact i bought the silver edition for 5000 litres, thinking my tank is 720 litres, this will be great and with a 2kg dennerle bottle too, will cover all my CO2 needs.
    :?
    But there was no free soup or refill. :arghh:

    Personally, if i was starting out again, i would not of bought this. The diffuser is ugly and mine has a little pump to disperse the co2 across 5000 litres. Come on. Mine is now hidden behind some very tall Bacopa. Next job is co2 reactor and will bin this.

    The CO2 pressure reducer Exclusive with 2 manometers and precision needle valve has leaked since day one, it just took me a while to realise how much gas i was going through. Binned it.

    The 2KG dennerle bottle will only be refilled by another dennerle stockist, well that narrows that down. Lucky i have 2 KG JBL bottle from my presvious kit. Good as binned.

    Hope that helps. :rolleyes: ;)

    So out of this peice of kit which cost me about £250, i will be using the hose and co2 tester.

    Forgot to mention the bubble counter leaked, so another £15 for replacement.
     
  15. SuperColey1

    SuperColey1 Member

    Messages:
    2,668
    Location:
    Lincoln UK
    I think the Dennerle 'Propaganda' or maybe promotion has been working overtime because a lot of people seem to be going back to their gear again now.

    I also notice that a lot of people have started quoting the 'siesta is meant to simulate thunderstorms' statement which is a load of c*ck and b*ll as we know. he, he.

    Someone must need a pay rise for all their work at the company.

    John

    It really is very easy. If you buy all the items seperate like we do it will be a third of theprice of the dennerle. It will be more effective than the dennerle because you will buy a better diffusor, hire a larger botte, probably buy a more reliable reg and needle valve etc.

    BOC/Air Products may even collect and deliver when they swap your cannister as part of the contract!!.

    Andy
     
  16. Themuleous

    Themuleous Member

    Messages:
    4,126
    Location:
    Aston, Oxfordshire
    Sod getting a kit, built your own kit, its easy and cheaper. You're also not restricted as to the type of cylinder you need to use then, which means you can use a fire extinguisher.

    Check out the FE guide I did

    http://www.ukaps.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=266

    Sam

    EDIT - for your tank, get friendly with your local pub (if not already ;)) and get a 83cm pub cylinder, it would last ages even on your tank :)
     
  17. toeterms

    toeterms Newly Registered

    Messages:
    1
    leaking pressur reducer

    Hi fella - just wondered why, if leaking from day one as you say, you didn't return the item for free of charge replacement or refund , as opposed to just <binning it> ?? Or did I read your message incorrectly?? Best wishes.

     
  18. Spider Pig

    Spider Pig Member

    Messages:
    141
    Any reason you've gone for t8 lights? Why not t5's- more efficient.

    What sort of set up do you want to have? Have a look at the guides in the aquascaping section. If you want to do a nature style aquarium get hold of Amano's books- really inspirational. Also have a look at the AGA entries and the CAU website. Although some of that stuff is pretty advanced, it does give good ideas on how to plan and aquarium and what different plants look like.
     
  19. ice

    ice Member

    Messages:
    34
    I know your head prob fubar by now but, i have 3 co2 system at the minute and the most efficiant way i have found of getting co2 around the biggest (400lt) using good equipment that does not cost a fortune is:

    TMC regulator with needle valve and sol valve £79.95 (Uk company good customer service)
    Online co2 2.5kg fire/ex £35, Then £10 for refilling by fire saftey company local to me.
    Cal aqua double drop checker as it has a high flow setting so it easy to monitor £29 (Aqua essentials)
    2 inline co2 valve and a splitter so i can run 2 diffusers tatal £45 (Aqua essentials)
    And really exspensive diffussers 2 wooden air stones, one at the back right under water inlet and one front left under a hydor power head. hydor was £25 and airstones were £1 each. (LFS)
    Thats about £225 including tube, and with the exception of the airstones thats all good quality parts and really nice fancy bubble counter. If you need any help locating the parts just let me know and i will email you direct links to parts.
    Good Luck
     
  20. TDI-line

    TDI-line Member

    Messages:
    1,535
    Location:
    Yaxley, Peterborough
    Re: leaking pressur reducer

     

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