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planting buces in substrate

Not me mate! soon as I seen your thread I had to state that I plonked 6 plants straight into my substrate a few months back and they’re all doing good. They easily ‘unroot’ from the substrate as they don’t anchor onto anything and the roots remain thick and curled (chicken foot as I call it) so you’ll have to take it easy with the Dyson (vaccing) but apart from that and a root tab they are looking lush with their different tones of deep purple, smoke on the water anyone?


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Matty123 said:
Not me mate! soon as I seen your thread I had to state that I plonked 6 plants straight into my substrate a few months back and they’re all doing good. They easily ‘unroot’ from the substrate as they don’t anchor onto anything and the roots remain thick and curled (chicken foot as I call it) so you’ll have to take it easy with the Dyson (vaccing) but apart from that and a root tab they are looking lush with their different tones of deep purple, smoke on the water anyone?


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Click to expand...
so, have you made sure rhizome is above the soil and it's only the roots that are buried? I struggled to even see the rhizome above the soil in the pictures from the link.
Any pics?
 
If you glue or tie them to small pieces of rock and push this into the substrate it should hold,As long as the rhizome isnt covered they should do fine.
 
Andrew Butler said:
so, have you made sure rhizome is above the soil and it's only the roots that are buried? I struggled to even see the rhizome above the soil in the pictures from the link.
Any pics?
Click to expand...

No, the whole lot is under the substrate. I’ve come to learn that just because it’s ‘written in stone’ doesn’t mean to say it can’t be done and this proves that.

Hope this helps
Matty


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Yes you can :) but the risk is present that a rhizome starts to rot. Its a rhizome that is an aerial part of the plant, best practice and most healthy for the plant is not to cover this rhizome.The rotting can be caused if the substrate is to dense and debri accumulating around it suffocating it even more. Damage from what ever reason will make it more susceptible to bacterial infection. So a good choice of substrate and regular maintenance preventing this to happen is a pre. Since we opperate in a closed system accumulation is inevitable and encreasing the risk that it goes the wrong way if not properly maintained.

They preferably they grow epiphytic in nature you occasinaly see Buce or Java fern growing burried in muddy or sandy soil at riverbanks or in the peat of the forrest floor. But circumstances and conditions here are rather different compaired to and completely on the contrary with an artificial closed submersed accumulating invironment.

I've seen Anubias in a tank standing burried in the substrate for many years. And it still was a healthy plant.. The only con is, if for whatever reason the rot in the rhizome kicks in the plant is doomed to die a gangrenous death.

Bury them as shallow as possible so that a new young leaf pops out as soon as possible or else it will suffocate and melt before it does and the damage is done. Melt is rot.. And still if the rhizome starts growing in lenght it might just grow itself out of the substrate again.
 
zozo said:
Yes you can :) but the risk is present that a rhizome starts to rot. Its a rhizome that is an aerial part of the plant, best practice and most healthy for the plant is not to cover this rhizome.The rotting can be caused if the substrate is to dense and debri accumulating around it suffocating it even more. Damage from what ever reason will make it more susceptible to bacterial infection. So a good choice of substrate and regular maintenance preventing this to happen is a pre. Since we opperate in a closed system accumulation is inevitable and encreasing the risk that it goes the wrong way if not properly maintained.

They preferably they grow epiphytic in nature you occasinaly see Buce or Java fern growing burried in muddy or sandy soil at riverbanks or in the peat of the forrest floor. But circumstances and conditions here are rather different compaired to and completely on the contrary with an artificial closed submersed accumulating invironment.

I've seen Anubias in a tank standing burried in the substrate for many years. And it still was a healthy plant.. The only con is, if for whatever reason the rot in the rhizome kicks in the plant is doomed to die a gangrenous death.

Bury them as shallow as possible so that a new young leaf pops out as soon as possible or else it will suffocate and melt before it does and the damage is done. Melt is rot.. And still if the rhizome starts growing in lenght it might just grow itself out of the substrate again.
Click to expand...

Seems I’ve been lucky with mine or is it that I keep my tank scrupulous clean?!Either way mine are doing good but I shall also take heed of your advise and shall pull them up a bit from the substrate so to give the rhizomes a bit of breather...


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I got a few recently and smashed a plant weight (they are surprisingly tough!) and glued a bit to the bottom of each and wriggled it down a bit. That way they sit right at the surface but don't float away. My anubias seem to like having their roots in the substrate - they have massive root systems once they touch the ground. I wonder if the buce's will do the same rhizomes on top but roots down through it.
 
tam said:
I wonder if the buce's will do the same rhizomes on top but roots down through it.
Click to expand...

Buce has an other type of rootsystem than Anubias.. Anubias has very thick roots and Buce is more branched with a lot of thinner rhizoids actualy much more complex structured than anubias.

Here is a nice example of a rather unhealthy Anubias rhizome dug into the likely highly organic silty soil.. :) This is probably a plant found in nature like that.. But obvious to see it is black, rotting and faul and has rather very little plantmass comparing to the size of rhizome. If a rhizome that size has room to breath that would be a enormous large plant. And obviously they can survive such a condition, but this amount of rotting tissue you realy do not want to have in your tanks substrate..
$_35.jpg
 
Daveslaney said:
If you glue or tie them to small pieces of rock and push this into the substrate it should hold,As long as the rhizome isnt covered they should do fine.
Click to expand...
zozo said:
Yes you can
Click to expand...
Matty123 said:
No, the whole lot is under the substrate
Click to expand...

Hmmmmmmm it seems you can BUT as I thought probably not good practice.
It was just the fact Tom Barr had done it and it seems everything he does is seen as correct which made me question it.
I'll probably try it and just keep the rhizome above substrate but the roots can bury themselves.
 
Maybe mine are just weird. Most of my anubias seem to put normal (green fairly thick) roots down to the substrate and then have a mass of branching roots once under it. This is a biggish anubias (about 10" long rhizome as thick as my finger) I had growing horizontally at the front of my tank on the surface of the substrate. Pulling it up, it's root system under the substrate was like pulling up a crypt! I moved it to the back and a lifted one end to give it more space. I didn't trim them - so you can see the originally buried roots in this not very good photo.

20180212_144506b.jpg
 
zozo said:
Buce has an other type of rootsystem than Anubias.. Anubias has very thick roots and Buce is more branched with a lot of thinner rhizoids actualy much more complex structured than anubias
Click to expand...
Just to be clear I am talking about Bucephalandras which I know to have the slang name 'buces'.
As Zozo points out they are a more delicate plant although I don't know anymore than this.
Does anyone have experience of putting Bucephalandras in/on the substrate?

Cheers
Andrew

dw1305 said:
Mine are the same.
Click to expand...
tam said:
Most of my anubias seem to put normal (green fairly thick) roots down to the substrate and then have a mass of branching roots once under it
Click to expand...
tam said:
My anubias seem to like having their roots in the substrate
Click to expand...
 
Hi all,
Andrew Butler said:
Just to be clear I am talking about Bucephalandras
Click to expand...
I think the point was just that both Bucephalandra spp. and Anubias spp. are <"Aroids">, which grow in similar situations (near water courses as lithophytes) in the wild, albeit in different continents. (Below from <"https://hiveminer.com/Tags/epilithic/Timeline">.

27997015465_dbb9a78dc3_b.jpg


Personally I would be surprised if they didn't preferentially root into any substrate, although those roots might just be for anchorage rather than for nutrient gathering. There are some planted ones in this article <"The Aquatic Plant Society......">

Have a look at <"Bucephalandra - all in one"> and <"Bucephalandra root trimming">.

cheers Darrel
 
Hi all,
Andrew Butler said:
so is there any benefit of having aquasoil over just some loose stones?
Click to expand...
If you had a suitable situation with some flow? I'd be tempted to glue the Bucephalandra to a rock, and then let it attach and it should find its own way down into the substrate. In one of the threads (@zozo?) there was a definite suggestion that their Bucephalandra plant, as well as having a fuzz of short roots, grew long roots which didn't reach the substrate, before rotting off.

About six weeks ago I rescued a fairly unhappy looking <"Tropica Bucephalandra sp. "Red"> (<"from P@H in Bath">). I didn't hold out much hope for it, but I placed in the flow from the filter (wedged pretty much at water level) and it survived, perked up and has just started growing new roots.

Now I need to find somewhere to put it more permanently. I'm going to try and place it near the substrate, probably glued to a cobble.

cheers Darrel
 
dw1305 said:
If you had a suitable situation with some flow?
Click to expand...

This is how things look now so plenty of space on the branches to glue buces to but I had looked at the scape titled 'escape' and liked the look of pebbles on the base but unsure about that right now.
That would give me plenty of options to put plants on slightly bigger stones.

What do you class a cobble as?

20180208_190032.jpg
 
Hi all,
Andrew Butler said:
What do you class a cobble as?
Click to expand...
Fist sized? or even a bit smaller, big pebble?. I don't like non-water worn rocks in the tank, but I have a few pebbles/cobbles because any leeches and Planaria tend to collect at substrate level on the sides of them, so the rocks have to be small enough to pick up fairly easily.

cheers Darrel
 
dw1305 said:
I don't like non-water worn rocks in the tank
Click to expand...
According to Wikipedia a pebble is 2-64mm and a cobble is anything from 64-256mm
I have a load of pebbles and smaller cobbles which are all 'tumbled' so are free from rough edges aside from the odd one which has escaped.

I now need to work out if there's any benefit of adding aquasoil underneath as far as the buces are concerned.
 
Not much more to say, actually - most Buceph.s are tough, little Bast.... (oh, I probaply can't write that);)
I have tested a lot, and the different types/varieties/species - or whatever they end up being clasdified - are not equally tough,
They have ALL grown healthier and faster, if tied to a small rock, allowed to grow their true roots into a rich bottom-layer as compared to growing high on a rock or high on a piece of wood.
 
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