plants just don't seem to grow/very very slowly

[tovtm]

I've owned planted tank for over a year and in that time have brought lots of plants but Don't have any success.

the tank is 125ltrs
2x38w T8 6" above water surface 7hrs a day
1400lthr external filter
dose EI on weekdays and 50% WC on weekend
temp 26-27deg
pressurized CO2 to green when lights on and turns off couple of hrs before lights off

when I see everyone else's plants on here there all lush green and everyone talks about them spreading roots and growing on but my plants just don't seem to do this. only plant in my tank doing well is the swords. the spray bar from the filter goes right across back of the tank but I've bungged up every other hole as to try and keep the flow by the time it reaches down the tank.
CO2 is diffused through a up atomizer. here's a few photos of the tank hopefully you can tell me
what's up or what to try/test for.

 

[Antipofish]

How much and what EI are you dosing ? Is the CO2 actually getting to the plants ? Where is your dropchecker positioned to show green, and is it lime green or dark green ? Have you tried moving the DC around to check its getting to the same level everywhere in the tank ? Perhaps, if you have no algae issues along with slow growth, you have just reached a good equilibrium and need to up the variables to increase growth ? Just some thoughts to help you address the issue

 

[bluemoon280]

I notice you have a discus on your tank. What kind of temperature are you running your tank at?

In my experience if you run the temperature too high, some plants do struggle. I will probably be shot down I'm flames tho.

Regards

 

[tovtm]

tempeture is around 27 degrees. as for Co2 getting to the plants it's a bit hard to tell as it's such a fine mist I usually just see it up the top of the tank but that's not to say it's not getting to the plants as Ive not looked for it but will tonight. the drop checker is placed at front of the tank on far left hand side about 1" from surface water. this is the furthest away from the inlet of the filter so I guess the least flow. also maybe I should mention I have my spray bar facing horizontal rather positioned down would it be advised to position the flow downwards to guarantee the co2 hits the plants (position it towards half way up the front glass rather than straight ahead)

 

[tovtm]

EI--

the mixture i mix up is as follows and i do a weekly 50% change.
4 tsp KNO3
1.25 tsp KH2PO4
9 tsp MgSO4
Put all this in one bottle and add 600ml
I dose 50ml of this on days 1, 3 & 5

Add 1.25 tsp Trace to 200ml warm water, in a different bottle,
I dose 25ml of this on days 2 & 4

 

[spyder]

Your dosing looks reasonable, although you maybe a little low on phosphates. Your are using lower light with T8's so you current dosing should suffice.

When your co2 is on, if you look down the side of the tank you should see the mist rolling down the front of the tank to the substrate. If you can only see the mist in the upper levels then you need to address this by increasing flow. After 5-10 minutes of co2 on time the tank should look very misty using an up inline. Those swords would also be restricting the flow around the tank. I tend to aim my spraybar down a few degrees, aiming towards the front.

Move your drop checker to a few inches from the substrate. You may find it shows a darker emerald green down there maybe even bluey green. Aim for a light limey green at lights on time or within an hour or two of lights on. Do this gradually though and try and do it on a day when you can be at home and monitor the livestock. Any bad signs, stop the gas and raise the spraybar to agitate the surface. Make very small changes and let it settle for a few days before adjusting further.

If you have photo's of failing plants it would help others figure out if it's co2 or fert related but it does sound like a co2 issue.

 

[tovtm]

Not that I know much but Co2 would be my guess or distribution. the swords are big which I guss can't be trimmed down so maybe I should get rid of those. as for looking down side of the tank that would be a NO no as this photo shows lol

my FE did run out a few weeks ago and I had a period of a week before my new FE was delivered in which time I did loose a few leaves but before this time the plants were in same state of growth as of now. but I had co2 up to what I felt was the Max as in the afternoons I could see the diacus and rummy tetra were at there limit. This would lead me to believe it's distribution but I really don't know how to diagnose problems with plants yet still on a learning curve.

 

[hinch]

dose your ei every single day full amount no days off. assuming your flow and co2 are correct i'll place bets you'll see an improvement within a week

 

[spyder]

Even though you can't peer down the sides of the tank the water should look misty all over, not just at the top. This does suggest a distribution issue.

It's already been mentioned that you may have just reached the limit of your setup where the only way to increase growth rates would be more light. This is a double edge sword as I'm sure your aware, you would need to ensure that co2, flow and distribution would need to be good to match the new higher demands.

Have you tried any Crypt species? I would imagine these would do well in your setup along with java ferns.

 

[tovtm]

dose your ei every single day full amount no days off. assuming your flow and co2 are correct i'll place bets you'll see an improvement within a week

you think that could be a possible issue then. what would overdosing do if it's too much? I only have ever learnt to work out and dose what I already dose so not sure of what would happen of less or more, and just to make sure your suggesting dose the 50ml each day 7 days a week and still keep the 25ml trace to TUE, THUR, and poss SAT now?

Have you tried any Crypt species? I would imagine these would do well in your setup along with java ferns.

funny enough I have both, crypts seem to be ok and green and java ferns have stayed same since ive had them with no noticeable growth

 

[hinch]

you think that could be a possible issue then. what would overdosing do if it's too much?

nothing at all since you "reset" your cycle with your water change once a week. plants will use as much as the light/co2 allows any excess will just sit in the column until you water change.

if it was me i'd mix my trace in with the macro and dose them all at once. even if you keep them as separate bottles though you could still chuck them both in every day. Its not going to harm anything!

 

[ian_m]

I too have possibly had what I thought was slow growth. I have a CO2 base Juwel 180l with 2 x 25W T8 tubes and using EI.

Couple of weeks after setup suffered algae on everything (as was to be expected) so reduced lighting to 3 hours (and CO2) and double dosed with Excel. Combination of above got rid of virtually all the algae on the plants (fine coating of BBA on wood, but managable and not unsightly) but did melt some of my plants as Excel can do. Main casualty was egeria densa which just melted but also swords suffered "softening leaves". The hair grass stopped spreading as well and just "stopped".

Once algae was gone I stopped dosing with Excel and slowly increased lighting (and matching CO2) but suffered brown diatoms on everything. Plants appeared better & green, but covered in brown dust !!!

I have since got some Ottos which promptly scoffed all the brown diatoms and have made major in roads into the BBA on the wood. I can see trails cut through the BBA left by them. I also have increased light to 7 hours and am starting to see quite major growth. The egaria and other easy keep plants (get some east keep plants so you can see things happening) have grown about 5cm in week and a bit, one even grew into my CO2 drop checker !!!. The swords have popped up new green leaves and other plants are sprouting all over the place. The hair grass hasn't really restarted, though I did notice it is growing roots all over the place.

Also I got a wavemaker (AllPondSolutions £20) which is on for some of the CO2 on time push CO2 around tank and reduced the tank temp to lower end of tropical fish temp of 24°C.

 

[tovtm]

the hair grass I have just dosent send root systems out at all, see I have swords too although may do away with these now as earlier mentioned for flow reasons but for time being I would want to start dosing EI twice as much and causing all my plants to melt

 

[tovtm]

thought some pictures would help diagnose the problem, there is some what I believe is BBA but think this is due to a week of when the co2 run out to getting the new one.

 

[tovtm]

to increase flow in the tank what's the max size powerhea I should use? I've gt a 2300lph koralia one but think that would be too powerful along with my 1400lph filter

 

[ceg4048]

tovtm,
Is that one of those textured backgrounds internal to the tank? I think we talked about this years ago. Was that you or was it someone else who had fallen in love with their 3D background? If it is a 3D, then it's killing your flow/distribution and no one can really say exactly how much flow adjustment is needed to overcome this obstacle. And the more the plants grow the more magnified the obstacle becomes.

The only way to overcome the debilitating effects of those backgrounds is to push more flow and CO2 into the tank and of course that comes with increased toxicity risk. You can try a more muscular filter, maybe one that's twice as big. That would be my first choice because I'm a fanatic, but if you can't swing that then I guess you'll need one or more of those goofy Koralia turbojet packs and distribute them evenly across the back to supplement the spraybar output. I would opt for multiple smaller units rather than a single giant pump.

Cheers,

 

[tovtm]

I don't mind if the background has to go to improve my tank I'm just worried how I would get it out/ how easy it will be as I remember when I brought the tank it was all silicond in which I could see looking through the back panel. have you ever had any experience removing them?

I would opt for the fluvial fx5 but I cant afford one
of those beasts so hopefully if I removed the background my filter would just be efficient enough to help the plants out if not like you say use a few filters.

 

[ceg4048]

Hi mate,
As I recall from several cases, it was a matter of cutting the silicone away and cleaning up the residual pieces, a messy job to be sure, but one worthwhile. It's free, so you could try this and maybe you wouldn't have to spend money on more flow.

Don't be afraid to look for used filters which can be had at much more reasonable prices. These are just plastic buckets with an immersed pump and impeller, so there's not much to go wrong - unless there is software involved...

Again, you can get another filter and just port each output to their own spraybar section.

Cheers,

 

[tovtm]

background has been removed I was in the right frame of mind when I got home from
work so now the flow should be better, if I had a second filter would the second one only have to be on while lights are on to get co2 around? and would it still be ok to have co2 going to up atomiser on just one pump spray bars (one half of the tank)

 

[ceg4048]

Well, there's no rule that says auxilliary filters or pumps should be switched off and on. Having to switch them off/on makes life more complicated so just leave it running. The only reason you'd have to switch off/on is if the flow created problems for the fish. So for example, if you had angelfish or discus, or other high fin-surface area fish thet where uncomfortable with the flow then you might want to think about switching off/on. Even so, I would choose to enlarge the spraybar holes to reduce the velocity rather than switching off/on.

Ideally, I'd rather have two diffusers but you can get by with one if the flow/distribution improves sufficiently. Having two diffusers adds yet another layer of complication. You might also need to tweak the injection rate or supplement with liquid carbon for a few weeks to accelerate recovery. Also consider in-line reactor solutions which work better than in-tank devices. Trim defective leaves ruthlessly.

Cheers,