I am doing research on growing carnivorous bog plants, and they all prefer lean water. The recommendation is to use distilled or rainwater as high nutrients can kill these plants which evolved in nutrient poor soil and thereby supplement nutrients by eating insects. Are there other bog/aquatic plants that hate nutrient rich water, which is the trade of EI.
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Plants that hate nutrients
- Thread starter tiger15
- Start date
MichaelJ
Member
I wonder if they actually "hate" nutrient water, or just have adapted to low/no nutrients by becoming carnivores and perhaps just don't care or are able to take advantage of nutrients if they are there...?
All advices say that they don’t tolerate nutrients and want mineral free water.
www.carnivorousplants.co.uk
Like many other carnivorous plants, Venus Flytraps need pure water. They evolved to grow in damp, low-nutrient soil, and giving them bottled, filtered, or tap water can result in a build-up of minerals that will eventually kill your Venus Flytrap. You should avoid fertilisers for similar reasons. Your best options are rainbow water, distilled or deionised water, or water produced by a reverse osmosis system. I’ve outlined your options in more detail here.
The Venus Flytrap: A Complete Care Guide
The Venus Flytrap is the most famous carnivorous plant. Learn how to care for Dionaea muscipula with this complete guide covering water, light, soil, and dormancy.
www.carnivorousplants.co.uk
Like many other carnivorous plants, Venus Flytraps need pure water. They evolved to grow in damp, low-nutrient soil, and giving them bottled, filtered, or tap water can result in a build-up of minerals that will eventually kill your Venus Flytrap. You should avoid fertilisers for similar reasons. Your best options are rainbow water, distilled or deionised water, or water produced by a reverse osmosis system. I’ve outlined your options in more detail here.
Last edited:
MichaelJ
Member
All advices say that they don’t tolerate nutrients and want mineral free water.
The Venus Flytrap: A Complete Care Guide
The Venus Flytrap is the most famous carnivorous plant. Learn how to care for Dionaea muscipula with this complete guide covering water, light, soil, and dormancy.
Like many other carnivorous plants, Venus Flytraps need pure water. They evolved to grow in damp, low-nutrient soil, and giving them bottled, filtered, or tap water can result in a build-up of minerals that will eventually kill your Venus Flytrap. You should avoid fertilisers for similar reasons. Your best options are rainbow water, distilled or deionised water, or water produced by a reverse osmosis system. I’ve outlined your options in more detail here.
@tiger15 That is fascinating. Well, I was just conjecturing... I did not realize you were talking about plants such as the Flytrap.
Cheers,
Michael
PARAGUAY
Member
Often wondered about thiss with submerse aquatic plants how sometimes they can look so good with growing in inert substrate and no or sparse liquid fertilisers. Do they store them when available. Or not using substrates.Thinking Java Ferns? Or is it a case of they will tell us eventually as in floating plants The Duckweed Index?
Hi all,
cheers Darrel
A <"bit of both"> I think.
@Geoffrey Rea has been <"feeding his Paramecium"> to great effect.
It depends on the nutrient, if a nutrient isn't mobile within the plant (like iron (Fe)) it can't store it, because any reserve is unavailable to new leaves. With <"mobile nutrients"> (N, P, K etc) the plant will move them to the new photosynthetic tissue.
They will definitely eventually show nutrient deficiency, the problem is that this will take a long time to occur, because of their slow growth rate. That was why I originally used Duckweed (Lemna minor) for the <"Duckweed Index">, <"it grows very rapidly"> and deficiency symptoms for non-mobile nutrients are easier to spot.
Using <"Amazon Frogbit"> (Limnobium laevigatum) as my "Duckweed" I've gone to a <"hybrid approach"> where I add iron (Fe) and magnesium (Mg) on a regular basis.
cheers Darrel
PARAGUAY
Member
zozo
Member
They can be and for the sensitive ones than put them in a separate hidden container with sphagnum moss or the special available soil for carnivours from the garden centre. So they don't get in touch with the mineral-rich water from the Paludarium. And then water them separately with rain or demi water. This requires some pre-planning in the setup where you would like to have them. Or grow them epiphytic and spray them regularly with rainwater... Some or maybe most are very sensitive to minerals, my best guess is it's simply too salty for them and it will burn their roots in the long run. I did read they are particularly sensitive to ammonia or urea-based fertilizers. And I guess as soon as you start with life stock that poops and requires feeding then ammonia always will be present at one point.
Currently, I'm growing a Pinguicula in a Paludarium set up straight on the topsoil, at first, it suffered and melted away. But what was left came back this spring and actually seems to have been recovering and established pretty well. It isn't even rooted I can pick it off the substrate. So it seems to be a bit of trial and error, to find out what will do and won't. I've also tried a few different Utricularia sp. But till now all of them didn't last longer than 2 seasons and slowly withered away.
Have a look at Mr. Teapot - Green Pekoe Pond he grew a beautiful Heliamphora sp. on top of his scape for quite some time.
I always wondered how he did it... So it definitively is possible
The proof is in the pudding... How much I would love to, but I do not have any personal experience with Heliamphora, for me, they are very hard to come by and extremely expensive plants. Much too expensive to experiment with and fail. Could be that these carnivores are less demanding than others. For you, in the USA they might be easier to obtain since they all originate from South America. 
ScareCrow
Member
I was going to suggest Mr Teapots Green Pekoe pond too, it's a great journal. After reading round the subject for a while. I've come to the same conclusion as zozo. Best to put them in a sperate planter, where you can cater for their requirements and try to integrate it into your design.
My question is not just about carnivorous plants, but whether there are other aquatic/ bog plants that dislike rich nutrients. Some terrestrial plants dislike rich soil, and prefer lean soil to grow well, and too much nutrients can burn them. The EI assumption is all plants can take rich nutrients, and I wonder if there are exception.
plantnoobdude
Member
@tiger15 madagascar lace plant does not like rich nutrients in substrate
"spreading dead zones in the older leaves may lead to the death of the entire leaf and are an indicator for a substrate too rich in nutrients"
www.flowgrow.de
ammania prefer lean fertilisation, and low kh.
can't think of any other examples though.
cheers,
"spreading dead zones in the older leaves may lead to the death of the entire leaf and are an indicator for a substrate too rich in nutrients"
Aponogeton madagascariensis
Aponogeton madagascariensis is usually found in flowing waters on the island of Madagascar. Its lacy leaf structure is unique and has made keeping this plant a challenge to hobbyists since the 1950s.There are two varieties of Aponogeton mad...
ammania prefer lean fertilisation, and low kh.
can't think of any other examples though.
cheers,
Yes, the UG once adapted to submersed life did appear ‘fed’ after each addition of paramecium culture. For a while this worked, 2 months roundabouts. Then the UG got thin on the leaves, produced more bladders and wasn’t unhealthy but didn’t look happy either.
It reminds me of Herwick sheep in the Lake District. You try to winter them in shelter they die. Caring is cruelty and it’s built for a reasonable level of inconsistency.
Moved some of the predominantly bladder type submersed UG into an emersed setup with fresh Amazonia Powder - lots of ammonia but access to atmosphere. It reacted, produced more leaves, seems to convert quickly and be thriving emersed:
Fresh pot of UG from the nursery put in at the same time right next to it:
Personally on the fence regarding whether it could have got the nutrients to adapt solely from existing tissue or whether it is capable of selectiveness in each state. There’s certainly no abundance of critters in the assemblage of the substrate as it’s new and it’s loaded with nutrients. It’s fresh Aquarium soil and I suppose we’re down to acquisition of nutrients through eating algae or from more traditional means.
I think there’s a characteristic that’s directional present, evolutionarily it would be sensible when dealing with varying water levels with seasonal rain. A fringe species.
As for the 45P I dumped just over a centimetre of fresh powder over the bladder rich submersed UG. It is coming back with thick leaves and appears similar to other folks tanks with a lush, leafy carpet now it’s properly buried:
So the ammonia burn thing… seems to affect fresh pots of UG. Established, not much bothered and burying it further in nutrient rich soil with an established biome made it adapt. Creates thicker leaves, less range of stolons and less bladders. It can’t be attributed solely to the established system being able to deal with ammonia as no water changes were performed.
It really is an amazingly adaptable plant and every one of the ‘rules’ people have put forward about it fails the tests it’s being put through in this house.
So a plant that loves nutrients, but is selective depending on its current state.
It makes sense that for non mobile Fe, it is best to dose daily whereas mobile NPK can be front loaded.
Duckweed isn't a desirable indicator plant because most people try to get rid of it. I wish I had a way to make duckweed decline, but have no luck as it thrives in adverse conditions my other floaters wither. Amazon Frogbit or Water Lettuce may be a better choice but neither work for me. They thrive and multiply in my unheated window sill bowls in warm months, decline and shrink in winter, and recover in spring. They seem to be more sensitive to ambient temp or humidity than nutrients in the water.
