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Problem with my Echinodorus

On a serious note you really need to remove all those decaying echinodorus leaves and the decaying cryptocoryne leaves, also get rid of anything that's infested with bba. Non of these leaves will recover and are only going to drag the tank down further.
I will do tomorrow. Believe it or not, all those bad leaves are in the last 7 days, when I last did some maintenance and I’ve just not had time to do anything. The damage has accelerated. I’m also going to put cucumber in as @dw1305 suggested.
To increase the iron, I assume I need to add just iron to my self made mix and not increase all the micros?
 
Believe it or not, all those bad leaves are in the last 7 days
Seven days!?... I don't think I've ever seen that level of plant deterioration (assuming it was healthy before) in such a short time span without some pretty obvious mistakes being committed - which I doubt happened in this case, but I obviously do not know... I think this mystery amounts to more than a run-of-the-mill Fe deficiency and a bored Ancistrus.

Anything you might have changed over the last couple of months would be good to know.

Cheers,
Michael
 
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You havent by any chance spot dosed glutaraldehyde/excel when you did that?
The melt on one of the pictures made me think
No, I don’t use gluteraldehyde.
Hi all,

Just add iron (Fe), you only need to add about 0.5 ppm, but you will need a chelator that works at higher pH levels. I might try the <"pink tint method"> and <"Chempak Sequestered Iron"> would be a possible source of FeEDDHA.

cheers Darrel
Thank you. I assume if my pH is 7 or below I can use EDTA chelated?
 
Anything you might have changed over the last couple of months would be good to know.
I started adding Mg again 2 weeks ago. I’d stopped using it as I originally had an EI recipe without and hadn’t noticed any improvements when I started using Mg. My plant mass was smaller then. I also changed some of my filter media to help improve flow, that was also two weeks ago. Work was crazy in the run up to Christmas and and I’d missed a few water changes - hence the built up organic sand probably resulting bba. Apart from that, no other changes.
Lol, I doubt that bba apeard in only seven days
I meant the actual leaf damage, not the bba.
 
I started adding Mg again 2 weeks ago. I’d stopped using it as I originally had an EI recipe without and hadn’t noticed any improvements when I started using Mg. My plant mass was smaller then.
Mg is an essential nutrient. If you're using tap water your very likely already very low on Mg in your neck of the woods... But the lack of Mg might not be the whole root cause if you plants was doing well for a long time before and it's something you just started adding and then stopped - unless that triggered a some sort of cold turkey effect in the plants (?).

I also changed some of my filter media to help improve flow, that was also two weeks ago. Work was crazy in the run up to Christmas and and I’d missed a few water changes - hence the built up organic sand probably resulting bba.
Missing a few WCs shouldn't be a problem unless your really tethering on the edge of way too much waste buildup or serious lack of essential nutrients.... It is an injected tank thus forced high metabolic rate, so perhaps.

If these where the only changes it's still very puzzling why the echinodorus would go downhill so fast.

Cheers,
Michael
 
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Hi all,
I assume if my pH is 7 or below I can use EDTA chelated?
You can.
I think this mystery amounts to more than a run-of-the-mill Fe deficiency and a bored Ancistrus.
I started adding Mg again 2 weeks ago. I’d stopped using it as I originally had an EI recipe without and hadn’t noticed any improvements when I started using Mg.
I'd guess it was a magnesium (Mg) deficiency. Because magnesium is mobile within the plant as soon as you add it the plant can move it to older leaf tissues etc.

We don't have much magnesium in our ground water <"for geological reasons">. Because things are different in much of N. America (where limestones have often undergone dolomitization) some EI recipes leave out magnesium.

There is <"no downside"> to <"adding magnesium">. Magnesium sulphate heptahydrate ("Epsom salts" (MgSO4.7H20)) are <"cheap and easy to obtain">* and <"supply 10% Mg">.

* If that link stops working that was "Westland 1.5 kg Epsom Salts" for £5.

cheers Darrel
 
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Hi @hypnogogia As you said above... EI dosing... This should really be enough of everything. You might want to bump your Fe and PO4 dosing a bit - wont hurt.
I still think this might be a nutrient distribution issue.. In any event, what makes the hobby entertaining is that it is rarely just one single thing that is off...

Cheers,
Michael
I think you may be right. I did a big trim today to remove all the affected leaves and in doing so I noticed just how dense they had become. I suspect there were challenges with nutrition to the leaves a result. I wonder if in future I also need to trim them just to stop them getting so dense.
 
I think you may be right. I did a big trim today to remove all the affected leaves and in doing so I noticed just how dense they had become. I suspect there were challenges with nutrition to the leaves a result. I wonder if in future I also need to trim them just to stop them getting so dense.
Hi @hypnogogia Well, I suppose when the plants starts choking under the weight of their own growth you can either trim, or possibly borrow time by making sure you get more nutrients in and around the plants. What I've done in instances when I saw signs of deficiencies around dense plants (that I couldn't reasonably attribute to a certain mineral being in short supply) was to prop up my flow around the bottom of the tanks with some small internal pumps such as this Pat Mini (I currently have two in each of my 150L tanks - just enough to stir things around and very easy to hide as well) and that really helped in my case. But at some point you have to face the inevitable.... One of my Swords is absolutely outgrowing one of my tanks (picture below - its massive) - I haven't figured out what I want to do about the situation yet. I am very much a softie when it comes to trimming of perfectly healthy leaves.


sword.jpg


Cheers,
Michael
 
I removed all of the dead and decaying/affected leaves at the weekend. I also changed the flow in my tank to improve both nutrient and CO2 distribution. I have also started feeding the Ancistrus other vegetable matter to try to stop it form eating the E. Bleheri. The photo below shows the damage to a healthy leaf of E. Bleheri since Saturday when I carried out the maintenance. I haven't yet made changes to fertiliser. Is this still nutrient related or something else?
 

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The leaf in your last picture has rasping damage for sure, naughty pleco ;)
I think the confusion stems from some of your earlier pictures, where some leaves had mechanical damage and some looked more like they were melting/necrotic.
 
The pleco is certainly a wizard eating my plants, even though he now gets delicious cucumber and peppers, as well as the occasional algae wafer. Anyone want to adopt a miscreant pleco?

At what point should I remove the damaged leaf? as soon as it has sustained damage? I'm concerned that at this rate I won't have any E. Bleheri left.
 
At what point should I remove the damaged leaf? as soon as it has sustained damage? I'm concerned that at this rate I won't have any E. Bleheri left.
I gave up with bleheri and removed them from my tank with ancistrus as they just ended up a mess with loads of holes in them.
 
At what point should I remove the damaged leaf?
Hard to say mate. I have two ancistrus and mine generaly seem to go after less healthy plant leaves, my usual rule of thumb is to leave at least one damaged leaf on the plant and use that as a sacrificial offering, once this leaf shows any signs of melting or rotting it gets removed. They'll eventually find another leaf to graze on but I can afford to lose a leaf every couple of weeks.

I still think there's other issues at play here that's causing the bristlenose to cause so much damage in such a short period. I'd definitely sort the fertiliser issue out that was showing in the frogbit, at least that can then be ruled out for the other plants.

Are the cryptocoryne leaves looking any better or are they still rotting?
 
Are the cryptocoryne leaves looking any better or are they still rotting?
I took off all the melting ones and no new ones have appeared. My current stock of ferts will be used up this weekend, and then I’ll make up a mix with more iron and phosphate.
 
Hi all,
with ancistrus as they just ended up a mess with loads of holes in them.
For whatever reason they are definitely the preferred plant for Ancistrus to graze on.
my usual rule of thumb is to leave at least one damaged leaf on the plant and use that as a sacrificial offering,
Rather than remove them, personally I would ignore the damage and just let the Bristlenose get on with it as well.

cheers Darrel
 
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