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Replace KH2PO4 ?

eminor

Member
Joined
5 Feb 2021
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784
Location
France
Hello, I use the tnc complete fertilizer, I would like to switch to the EI method, in the drugstore near me, it is not easy to get all the mineral salts, is it possible to prepare the fertilizer with the ingredients from the list below?

Is it possible to replace KH2PO4?
Is CSM + B mandatory? thx

List:
KCl
KNO3
Na3PO4 . 12H2O
K2SO4
MgSO4.7H2O
 
Technically yes, as it contains PO4, however I would not use it without going by our Expert @dw1305 and/or our Chemist @X3NiTH. (they should answer soon ;))
I sure there is a good reasons why we don't use it apart from the Na and it having no K.

As to CSM+B any good trace mix should do as CSM+B is so expensive, post what you can get your hands on and will take a look
 
Technically yes, as it contains PO4, however I would not use it without going by our Expert @dw1305 and/or our Chemist @X3NiTH. (they should answer soon ;))
I sure there is a good reasons why we don't use it apart from the Na and it having no K.

As to CSM+B any good trace mix should do as CSM+B is so expensive, post what you can get your hands on and will take a look
Thank you, at my drugstore, I can have almost everything that makes up the csm + b except perhaps the molybdenum, I imagine that it must be complicated to make yourself? also, for the iron there are several types, can't find any mix :(
 
Hi all,
Is it possible to replace KH2PO4?
You could use dipotassium phosphate (K2PO4). Phosphate compounds are <"largely insoluble">, so you only really have the group one metals (and ammonium (NH4+)) as cations. <"Phosphate buffers"> might be an option ?
I sure there is a good reasons why we don't use it apart from the Na and it having no K.
Yes, it is pretty unsuitable.

You have sodium (Na) as the cation, rather than potassium (K). You also have the issue of not actually containing much PO4---, you've got 3 x Na (RAM = 23 = 69) and 12 H2O (12 * 18 = 216).

Because it is a compound that has three sodium atoms it is also highly basic, so much so that it is used to <"saponify fats"> in soap making.

cheers Darrel
 
Thank you, finally I found the KH2PO4, this is what I can get, is there any extra stuff, or is there any missing? thx

K2CO3
MgSO4 7H2O
K2SO4
KNO3
KH2PO4
Trace Mix : Fe 7,48% ; Mn 1.82% ; Zn 1.16% ; B 1.05% ; Cu 0.23% ; Mo 0.15%
 
Thank you, finally I found the KH2PO4, this is what I can get, is there any extra stuff, or is there any missing? thx

K2CO3
MgSO4 7H2O
K2SO4
KNO3
KH2PO4
Trace Mix : Fe 7,48% ; Mn 1.82% ; Zn 1.16% ; B 1.05% ; Cu 0.23% ; Mo 0.15%
pottasium nitrate, monopottasium phosphate and the micro mix and you should be good to go.
 
Trace Mix : Fe 7,48% ; Mn 1.82% ; Zn 1.16% ; B 1.05% ; Cu 0.23% ; Mo 0.15%
Which is virtually the same as APFUK trace mix which many folk use with success :thumbup:

1628578760384.png
 
Hi all,


Do you have <"very soft water?"> If you do? you may need a calcium (Ca) salt (usually CaCl2.6H2O). If you don't have very soft water, you don't need the potassium carbonate (K2CO3). You will need to add some magnesium (Mg), most water in W. Europe doesn't contain much for <"geological reasons">.

cheers Darrel

Hard water, there is the report :

Magnesium 3.8 MG/L
Calcium 120 MG/L

so i need MgSO4 7H2O too ? thx
 
Hard water, there is the report :

Magnesium 3.8 MG/L
Calcium 120 MG/L

so i need MgSO4 7H2O too ? thx
i'd just add some Magnesium perhaps 10-20 ppm you have more than enough calcium. you can add in daily fert dose or at water change once per week, or both.
 
Not sure if this answers your question eminor but you could either download this ~


Or use this ~

Edit: my bad ~ EI DOSING USING DRY SALTS
 
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Hi all,


Do you have <"very soft water?"> If you do? you may need a calcium (Ca) salt (usually CaCl2.6H2O).
Hi @dw1305 / @Zeus. For the Ca part of GH, what do you think about using Calcium Sulfate (CaSo4 or Gypsum) instead of Calcium Chloride (CaCl2) ? I am asking because I saw a mention somewhere that Chloride may not be good for the plants at elevated levels (whatever that level is...). I have been using CaCl2 / MgSo4 for 3 months now to target ~5.5-6.5 GH and haven't noticed any issues, so I am just wondering if there are any benefits or drawbacks either way? FWIW with CaSo4 for the same amount of Ca ppm I would add ~23 ppm of Sulfate vs. ~40 ppm of Cl with CaCl2 (I don't add any other Cl except for what I get from my KCl softened tap water...).

Cheers,
Michael
 
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but has very limited solubility.
1628618076305.png


Which is why some folk who use 100% RO go for Calcium Nitrate to get there Ca

(The about table is a pre-release remineraliser for the IFC Calculator - the reason for CaSO4 only showing 1% solubility is it is dry dosed direct to tank )
 
View attachment 173000

Which is why some folk who use 100% RO go for Calcium Nitrate to get there Ca

(The about table is a pre-release remineraliser for the IFC Calculator - the reason for CaSO4 only showing 1% solubility is it is dry dosed direct to tank )
Hi @Zeus. Thanks for the chart. As a non-chemist I am trying to understand the implications of the solubility level as it relates to our dosing, plants etc. Does it mean it's not as efficient for the plants/livestock and we have to use more to get the same effects vs a different compound ? or is it that it just takes a longer time to dissolve in the water column and eventually becomes just as efficient as a compound with a higher solubility level?
Cheers,
Michael
 
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If your making a dosing solution, you really want salts that are highly soluble, so you can make a concentrated solution of 500ml to a couple of litres and dose 10 to 100ML a dose and reach your target ppm easy
1628622381820.png

Most are fine if you can get 100g to dissolve in a litre, if it does not all dissolve it will remain a solid at the bottom of your dosing bottle and you will not reach your target ppms.

So for salts like CaSO4, CaCO3 and MgCO3 it is best to dose direct into tank if you use them, then al least if all the ions get used more just dissolve into water- however this can be an issue if your after reaching a specific hardness for RO water for specific shrimp/fish then you must be sure of your correct salts to achieve the hardness
 
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