• You are viewing the forum as a Guest, please login (you can use your Facebook, Twitter, Google or Microsoft account to login) or register using this link: Log in or Sign Up
  • You can now follow UKAPS on Instagram.

Rivers Edge - ADA 45P - planted and filled

akwarium

Member
Joined
20 Feb 2010
Messages
207
Location
Haskerhorne, Netherlands
sorry to hear about your Betta. In my opinion they are fish made for rainy days, looking at them always cheers you up. And so, despite the fact that I feel they look like swimming drag queens on steroids, I truly like them.

Looking forward to your new scape!
 

Kalum

Member
Thread starter
Joined
8 Jan 2018
Messages
1,041
Location
Scotland
sorry to hear about your Betta. In my opinion they are fish made for rainy days, looking at them always cheers you up. And so, despite the fact that I feel they look like swimming drag queens on steroids, I truly like them.

Looking forward to your new scape!

Thanks akwarium and couldn't agree more, they are definitely the divas of the fish world. Great wee fish that show personality you can actually interact with

Some Sunday morning scraping which has reinforced the need (as if I needed any encouragement) for more stone and wood, will see what Aquasabi and Aquarium Gardens have in stock, it's just a shame I can never pick them in person as it would save me a fortune!

Gives the rough idea of what I'm thinking, stone separating ADA Amazonia at the back and ADA La Plata at the front

Will be low light and low flow (but high turnover) but will more than likely low dose excel so most stems won't grow dense enough and end up leggy, I'm leaning towards going down the Crypt and anubias route with planting, but I do want something with a bit of substance in the back right but needs to be in proportion

Open to suggestions on planting

20190113_104038-1008x756.jpg
 

Kalum

Member
Thread starter
Joined
8 Jan 2018
Messages
1,041
Location
Scotland
Order has been placed for:

5kg of Seiryu
Anubias Pangolino
Micranthemum 'Monte-Carlo' Tropica 1-2 Grow!
Helanthium tenellum 'Green' - Tropica 1-2 Grow!
Echinodorus Tenellus Tissue Culture -Linea In-Vitro
Cryptocoryne Willisii Tissue Culture - Linea Vitro
Hygrophila 'Siamensis 53B' Tropica 1-2 Grow!

Also received 3 new pieces of manzanita at the weekend so should be all set once it arrives

ADA Amazonia (normal and powder) is soaking in buckets at the minute so i don't get the normal ammonia burn on the monte carlo. Why i'm trying it again i don't know as never had any luck even with co2......
 
Last edited:

Ady34

Global Moderator
UKAPS Team
Joined
27 Jul 2011
Messages
4,888
Location
Co. Durham
Glutton for punishment :lol:

Always exciting awaiting an order.....
 

Konsa

Member
Joined
20 Nov 2010
Messages
775
Location
Lostock Hall
Hi
Will be good idea to put air stone in those buckets with Aquasoil and change the water now and then too
Regards Konsa
 

Kalum

Member
Thread starter
Joined
8 Jan 2018
Messages
1,041
Location
Scotland
Glutton for punishment :lol:

Always exciting awaiting an order.....

Honestly I don't know why i do it to myself, i just seem to gravitate towards MC/HC every time i order plants even though i've tried 3 times and failed 3 times to grow it!

Hi
Will be good idea to put air stone in those buckets with Aquasoil and change the water now and then too
Regards Konsa

Changing the water daily at present but no air stone, wouldn't have thought that would benefit much?
 
Joined
27 Oct 2009
Messages
2,918
Location
Cumbria
For the NH4 (Ammonia) to convert to No2 (Nitrite) then No3 (Nitrate) it's going to need to rob an O molecule from somewhere, hence keeping the water oxygenated with an airstone would be my guess.
 

Kalum

Member
Thread starter
Joined
8 Jan 2018
Messages
1,041
Location
Scotland
For the NH4 (Ammonia) to convert to No2 (Nitrite) then No3 (Nitrate) it's going to need to rob an O molecule from somewhere, hence keeping the water oxygenated with an airstone would be my guess.

I'm not looking to cycle the substrate, just let it leech the ammonia in the early stages of it being submersed as it always does, the tank its going into has been kept going with a mature filter and ADA la plata so trying to avoid any cycle once introduced
 
Joined
27 Oct 2009
Messages
2,918
Location
Cumbria
Ok mate, I thought it might have been to keep it aerated so it doesn't become anaerobic and stagnating.
 
Joined
27 Oct 2009
Messages
2,918
Location
Cumbria
Just to add id there's nothing there to start converting the Ammonia, won't it just stay ammonia and soak back into the granules. Should be ok if you're changing the water in the bucket I guess.
 

Kalum

Member
Thread starter
Joined
8 Jan 2018
Messages
1,041
Location
Scotland
Yeh all fair points that you and Konsa are bringing up mate, if there's any benefit in it then I have one sitting so can easily add it, without water changes I'd definitely agree

This is the first time I've pre-soaked it and it was just a thought to try and reduce the ammonia phase of the soil so I can stock as early as possible while I'm awaiting hardscape arriving anyway

Basically like re-using old amazonia instead of brand new and assuming there won't be a continued ammonia leeching after the usual initial 2-3 weeks?
 
Joined
27 Oct 2009
Messages
2,918
Location
Cumbria
I'm not sure mate, I'm not familiar with the substrate. I did have a look into it a while back when another poster was using ADA ferts but without the substrate, it became apparent that ADA ferts or at least for the first 6 months to a year didn't have any N and P in them as most of this was derived from the substrate. I have heard that ADA substrate has 100x the amount of EI dosing in it but I don't know if this is ammonia that's converted to nitrate or these is also nitrate "built in" as well. Either way it seems to get released slowly over quite a long period whatever it is. Sorry I can't help you more, would be better speaking to someone who has experience with it and see how long the ammonia leaching goes on for. I would guess though once a tank, the plants and the bacteria are established any further ammonia it did release would be mopped up pretty quick before it has chance to cause a problem with the fish.
 

Kalum

Member
Thread starter
Joined
8 Jan 2018
Messages
1,041
Location
Scotland
that makes sense with the lean dosing approach of the ADA ferts in the early stages but yeh I don't know for certain one way or another with how and what is released. All I know is from my own experience and others on here in that the first 2-3 weeks it leaches a fairly high amount of ammonia, whether that is the intended source of nitrates is an interesting point but even using a mature filter and tank you still see an early spike with new substrate.

That could well be the time it takes for the bacteria to adapt and process it quick enough after a few weeks, or it levels off after an initial spike
 
Joined
27 Oct 2009
Messages
2,918
Location
Cumbria
Would make sense mate, I'm not as much advising you here as running through it with you. I'm sure the scientists will be along shortly when they've finished work ;)
 

Kalum

Member
Thread starter
Joined
8 Jan 2018
Messages
1,041
Location
Scotland
Every day is a school day for most so it's good to talk through and understand things better, pre-soaking it could be completely pointless but it also won't do any harm. Will see for myself in a week or 2 once it's being used.
 
Joined
27 Oct 2009
Messages
2,918
Location
Cumbria
I don't think it would be pointless for sure, if you change the water in the bucket now and again it will surely remove the ammonia leached.
 

Konsa

Member
Joined
20 Nov 2010
Messages
775
Location
Lostock Hall
Hi
Being in a bucket is not ideal.It caps itself sort of and only the upper layers are leaching what they are leaching. An ait stone will create some movement trough substrate hence better. I find it best to put airstone during night in the tank itself once it is setup and do the daily WCs and U won't get ammonia burn on plants .Other option is to plant the carpet later, lets say on week 3-4.
Here is 2 weeks difference after airstone addition.
Before
23122010138.jpg


After
DSCN0114.JPG

Regards Konsa
 
Last edited:

Kalum

Member
Thread starter
Joined
8 Jan 2018
Messages
1,041
Location
Scotland
I don't think it would be pointless for sure, if you change the water in the bucket now and again it will surely remove the ammonia leached.

That's my thinking as I (currently) believe it produces a higher ammonia release in the first 2-3 weeks than it does after this period.

Question is.....is that correct or does it still release ammonia after this which is used as a nitrogen source and we just don't see the ammonia as the bacteria is processing consistently by that point
 

Kalum

Member
Thread starter
Joined
8 Jan 2018
Messages
1,041
Location
Scotland
Hi
Being in a bucket is not ideal.It caps itself sort of and only the upper layers are leaching what they are leaching. An ait stone will create some movement trough substrate hence better. I find it best to put airstone during night in the tank itself once it is setup and do the daily WCs and U won't get ammonia burn on plants .Other option is to plant the carpet later, lets say on week 3-4.
Here is 2 weeks difference after airstone addition.
Before
View attachment 120789

After
View attachment 120790
Regards Konsa

Thanks for the input Konsa and what a difference in the carpet in just 2 weeks! I'll have a Chihiros Doctor running on the tank so hopefully that will aid the oxygen levels in place of an airstone

The soil is being moved around in the buckets daily when changing water which is more than would be happening in the tank once planted but i get your point about water movement possibly aiding in the leaching process.

I still had ammonia burn in my last scape even with very regular water changes as usual in a new setup
 

dw1305

Expert
UKAPS Team
Joined
7 Apr 2008
Messages
12,341
Location
nr Bath
Hi all,
I'd go for an air-stone as well. If the ammonia is converted to nitrate (NO3) (and it will be eventually, even without the air-stone) you don't then want anaerobic denitrification (NO3 ~ N2 gas) to occur. If the the oxygen levels are higher it will just remain as NO3 until the plants use it.

The <"COMAMMOX Nitrospira"> that can convert ammonia directly into nitrate are pretty much universal in the environment.
All I know is from my own experience and others on here in that the first 2-3 weeks it leaches a fairly high amount of ammonia, whether that is the intended source of nitrates is an interesting point but even using a mature filter and tank you still see an early spike with new substrate.

That could well be the time it takes for the bacteria to adapt and process it quick enough after a few weeks, or it levels off after an initial spike
Probably is the "wrong" micro-organisms that have proliferated under high ammonia loadings. It won't matter in the longer term as ammonia levels fall the microbial assemblage will change.

cheers Darrel
 

Similar threads

Top