Running period for new set up

Discussion in 'General Planted Tank Discussions' started by Dolly Sprint 16v, 13 Apr 2009.

  1. Dolly Sprint 16v

    Dolly Sprint 16v Member

    Messages:
    1,611
    Location:
    Cheshire
    Gang@Ukaps

    I am currently running in a new set up Aqua Mode 300 - 25 ltr tank so you could call it a nano flat backed and fully curve front. It been running now for a fortnight and had one 50% water change. I have placed some stem plant cuttings in there can i add any liquid ferts (Profito) to help the plants whilst my bacteria cultures.

    TankLayout2022.jpg

    Regards
    paul.
     
  2. ceg4048

    ceg4048 Expert/Global Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    8,953
    Location:
    Chicago, USA
    Hi Paul,
    News Flash: Plants and bacteria have a symbiotic relationship. This means that plants help accelerate bacterial colonies and bacterial colonies help accelerate plant growth. Bacteria also use nutrients like PO4. So the answer to your question is YES.

    Cheers,
     
  3. Dolly Sprint 16v

    Dolly Sprint 16v Member

    Messages:
    1,611
    Location:
    Cheshire
    Thx for the reply I am only adding Profito at the moment, don't want to add anything else yet until is completely running in, which I would imagine will take some time due to the small quanitity of water as it only 25 ltr even though I did use my old spent tank water from my other tank and if anything goes wrong it will be dramatic rather than gradual, you would laugh at my cuttings - they are in a medium sized plastic tub (the ones your take away meal come in) filled with gravel. I will take some pic for you - what do you think of the tank I think is neat & tidy.

    Regards

    Paul.
     
  4. Ejack

    Ejack Member

    Messages:
    130
    Location:
    Berkshire, UK
    Looks OK

    Not too sure about the internal filter though, looks a tad big
     
  5. Dolly Sprint 16v

    Dolly Sprint 16v Member

    Messages:
    1,611
    Location:
    Cheshire
    Ejack

    Thx for the comment - due to the half moon front it gives the appearance that its big - its only an aquaball 2206. I have cut my Jewel backing to allow the aquaball holder to blend into the back ground this has allowed the pump to sit closer to the back of the tank - less intrusive, when I am back home i will take an arial shot and you will see the difference.

    Regards

    Paul.
     
  6. ceg4048

    ceg4048 Expert/Global Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    8,953
    Location:
    Chicago, USA
    OK, well I'm completely lost on this one. I must have missed something. I mean, this is a planted tank right? If so you are breaking all the rules of "running in" a planted tank which means higher risk of all things bad. This is not to say that all things bad will happen, just that the risks are higher.

    Firstly, the volume of water in the tank has nothing to do with the speed or efficiency at which the tank will mature. Next, the tank should be jam packed with as many plants as possible because plants help to mature the substrate a zillion times more quickly than a bare tank. Certainly not having done a water change for two weeks is nothing to be proud of. A planted tank being matured should have multiple water changes because plants want clean water free of their own organic waste. If plants are in the tank then they need to be fed and fed properly so I see no point whatsoever of "not wanting to add anything until completely run in". The whole point of adding things, which I assume you're referring to nutrients, is that this helps tremendously in "running in". So your goals are at odds with your technique.

    What a tank starts out looking like has no bearing on what it looks like later on. Creating the biological infrastructure for future scape and fauna, while minimizing the risk of algae, is of prime importance and so these things mentioned above facilitate the infrastructure.

    Hope this makes sense. :?

    Cheers,
     
  7. Dolly Sprint 16v

    Dolly Sprint 16v Member

    Messages:
    1,611
    Location:
    Cheshire
    Regards
    Paul.
     
  8. GreenNeedle

    GreenNeedle Member

    Messages:
    2,706
    Location:
    Lincoln UK
    The quick answer is that most of us setup a new tank and strat as we mean to go on. No stages.

    Plants in, CO2 on, ferts added all from the start.

    Safest to start with a shorter photoperiod or less tubes on at the beginning although experienced people may start with their intended photoperiod.

    I personally start the tank from day 1 as I will run it for its lifetime (including fish straight in)

    AC
     
  9. ceg4048

    ceg4048 Expert/Global Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    8,953
    Location:
    Chicago, USA
    OK well here's the long answer:

    No mate, I'm sorry but this is completely wrong. Toxins, nutrients and waste products are all measured in terms of concentration i.e. parts per million This concentration parameter already takes into account the volume of the water. A 0.2ppm ammonia concentration in a 250 liter tank has exactly the same drama as a 0.2ppm ammonia concentration in a 25 liter tank. There is no difference. In fact, in absolute terms the 250 liter tank produces more of everything.

    Again, this is where many tanks fall off the wagon. Mature water means absolutely nothing. The work done by the tank is achieved in the filter media and the substrate. The substrate bacterial colonies are a thousand times more important that that of the water column. The stability of the planted tank primarily depends on whats happening in the soil. The water has to be clean, not dirty. Only 2 water changes in 2 weeks is not good at all because algal spores live in the water column. You want to get rid of the water as often as possible.


    What blows me away completely is that you are comparing nutrients, which are absolutely essential, to antifreeze. This way of thinking almost guarantees that you will have problems. The pollution you added to your tank was the old tank water and the organic waste it generates. Plants remove other pollutants from the water column but in order to do this effectively they must be fed. If this is a high light CO2 injected tank or a Liquid carbon, or a DIY CO2 tank then avoiding water changes in no way helps. If this is a non CO2 supplemented tank then it's a different story entirely. If this is the case then no water changes are necessary. Clean water, high in nutrients creates the best conditions for your plants. Have you read this thread=> Setting up a 'higher' tech planted tank How about this one?=> EI DOSING USING DRY SALTS These threads do not leave you high and dry. As regards Profito, it's unclear which of their products you are referring to. Some are incomplete so you'd need to specify.

    Cheers,
     
  10. swackett

    swackett Member

    Messages:
    439
    Location:
    Epsom, Surrey
    Paul,

    One think you have not mentioned is what sort of setup are you going for, a high tech, high maintenance (c02 injection, high light level and high nutrient dosing) or a low tech setup (low light, no C02 injection, lower nutrient levels)

    Clive, correct me if I am wrong but if you are attempting a low tech setup with no Co2 injection you want to keep water changes to a minimum as this will fluctuate the Co2 level in the tank, however quiet the reverse is required for a high tech Co2 injected tank.

    Most people including myself setup the tank in the following steps
    1. Decide on layout
    2. Put in substrate + any decor (wood, rocks, etc)
    3. Plant Heavily (at least 75%) of substrate covered with plants
    4. Then fill up the tank and start a dosing regime and if a high tech setup ,set Co2 injection rate.

    Do you have any plants in the tank as the picture you posted shows it bear?

    Cheers
     
  11. Dolly Sprint 16v

    Dolly Sprint 16v Member

    Messages:
    1,611
    Location:
    Cheshire
    Guys

    Pic attached as they stand @ 15:45 on the 15.04.2009 for my little tank and big tank. Dont laugh at the way I have added my cutting - I have not completely decided what plants i want to add to this tank and the same can be said about my bigger tank. The bigger tank - scaping I am satified with, its just getting the right plant. Prior to buying the new plants - i just bought whaever to get some colour in there.

    The cutting in the tubs are from my bigger tank which got too leggy and not knowing what to do with them i placed them into some tubs and into the smaller tank. Following a visit to TGM and talking to Steve / Dan and John I now know a lot more about taking stem cuttings.

    I want a high tech tank as I do with my other one, I have a Co2 kit ready for it Jbl reg + solenoid valve, everything is ready to start, its plumbed, wired etc, gravels in, waters in (but its old water from my bigger tank)filters in etc.

    TELL WHAT TO DO NEXT.

    Ceg - i am sorry if I seemed a bit strong with my comments - I am green to this and I don't fully understand the pro and con - sorry mate.

    Pics attached of both my tanks - excuse the pots of plants in my big tank as i only bought the plants on Monday pm and it was back to work on Tuesday, home this afternoon and away again tomorrow. The only time I have for the tanks is at the weekend.

    Asitstand15042009-1545.jpg

    AquaOneAr980150409.jpg

    Regards
    Paul
     
  12. ceg4048

    ceg4048 Expert/Global Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    8,953
    Location:
    Chicago, USA
    The procedures are exactly as swackett summarized above...

    No worries mate, we're just trying to free your mind. As I said, we have plenty of information in the Tutorial section. For example, stem cuttings are discussed in great detail in the article Pruning - A general guide to plant maintenance so if anything becomes vague or if you've forgotten information you can always refer to that article and in that section. :D

    Cheers,
     
  13. Dolly Sprint 16v

    Dolly Sprint 16v Member

    Messages:
    1,611
    Location:
    Cheshire
    As for my little tank, would it be advisable (now) to remove 95% of the water and add fresh. As for the plant cutting - can I leave them in. At the weekend I will get the co2 kit going and can I add some of my E.I ferts - i know i will have to do the calulation for the tank ie how much in mls to add to 20 ltr of water.

    Regards

    paul.
     
  14. ceg4048

    ceg4048 Expert/Global Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    8,953
    Location:
    Chicago, USA
    Yeah mate, change the water, keep the lights low and you'll be fine. Since you don't have the time to stick them in the substrate now, just leave them in the pots until you have the opportunity on the weekend. If you're using the dry powders a 5 gallon tank doesn't need much at all. I'd just add 1/16 teaspoon (1/2 gram) of each powder (KNO3, KH2PO4 and Traces) 3X a week and call it good. Make it easy on yourself. I was under the impression that you had Profito but I don't know which product it was. In any case if you have these powders then it's just as easy.

    Cheers,
     
  15. Dolly Sprint 16v

    Dolly Sprint 16v Member

    Messages:
    1,611
    Location:
    Cheshire
    The Profito is manufactured by Easy-life, the label states - Fertillizer extra complete, its the same company that produce easy-carbo. I was using profito & Ferro and the macro nutrients in my other tank, then I read your article on E.I and I started dosing your way.

    Regards

    Paul.
     
  16. ceg4048

    ceg4048 Expert/Global Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    8,953
    Location:
    Chicago, USA
    Oh yeah, you're right, I do remember this one. That's just traces + Potassium. I've flogged this product a couple of times in the threads ProFito and TPN+ Vs. Easy Life Profito?

    Some time later I read where it had won some kind of award, and I remember wondering aloud whether the award could have been for best actor. Unbelievable. This could only have happened in The Matrix. 8)

    Cheers,
     

Share This Page

Facebook Page
Twitter Page
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice