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Scarlett Badis /Dario Dario

Paulthewitt

Member
Joined
30 Dec 2020
Messages
95
Location
Liverpool, UK
Hi guys
Planning ahead for my 19L tank that I plan to put Shrimp in and hopefully get lots of babies from!
However, shrimp are just not as good as fish to watch. So would like one or 2 fish as well eventually. I did consider CPDs, but they need a bigger group so I think they are out.
Scarlett Badis I would have a Male/Female pair only.

From this info, would they be ok. And crucially - would they be likely to actively hunt out my Shrimp fry? (i know they will eat anything that dumbly swims into their chomping range... but that is different to active hunters like a killifish I hear). I would consier a Betta... but they may go after even fairly big cherry shrimp fry...I'm hoping the Scarlett Badis size means only the very young are at risk.

Any thoughts or experiences?
(I dont want Ottos before they are suggested thanks ... not in this tank anyway)

Thanks
Paul
 
Yes, they hunt shrimp babies very well, but will leave adults (well anything over about 7mm) alone. They are active hunters and attracted to movement. As they are small they slink around easily in the plants/decor to hunt. I wouldn't expect the shrimp population to grow, or if it did slowly. You could artificially keep it going by catching a female and raising the babies a few weeks until they aren't mouth size. Also it's difficult/impossible to find the females, so odds of a pair is slim, they are pretty out going though so I'd go for a single male. They are too territorial to have more than one male in a tank that size.
 
Scarlett Badis I would have a Male/Female pair only.

Tank is too small imo, volatile fish, male will dominate. If you find a female id urge you to go an buy a 60cm minimum tank, give her some space and also give their fry a chance.
 
Thanks Tam - well that is that idea out of the window!!
Any nice fish ideas for a baby shrimp tank anyone?

I know some people say only Ottos are safe... but whilst I like them, they aren't exactly my idea of a feature fish to look at!
 
Thanks Tam - well that is that idea out of the window!!
Any nice fish ideas for a baby shrimp tank anyone?

I know some people say only Ottos are safe... but whilst I like them, they aren't exactly my idea of a feature fish to look at!

You'll struggle to find a fish that won't eat baby shrimp, I don't know of any
 
I agree with tam, I had what I had hoped to be a pair (spent a long time watching their behavior, colouration etc before purchasing) but it was actually two males. For whatever reason we only seem to get males. Beautiful if quite illusive fish though. Have you considered Epiplatys annulatus (clown killifish)? I had a friend that kept a trio to spread out aggression in a similar size tank, along with some tiger shrimp Caridina cantonensis. The Killis are fairly surface oriented and while they may venture lower in the tank they're too small to eat full grown shrimp, although young shrimp maybe taken, provided enough cover is given some will survive. If you do go the killi route you'll definitely need a tight fitting lid.
Boraras brigittae might be another option but they also like cover from what I've read.
Just saw your other thread about your Fluval Spec. That is what my friend had his Epiplatys annulatus in.
 
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Badis is not an easy fish to keep anyway, you need to have some luck... The ones available are afaik wild-caught and since they are predatory by nature they might not accept dried food maybe even be picky to accept frozen life food. Sexing them or finding a pair also seems rather problematic, females are dull grey in colour, the rest of the differences are very minor and subdominant males can look the same as a female.

I've kept a small group of 6 in a 110-litre tank that was loaded with a huge number of cherry shrimp... So they were welcome to thin that out... Still, I was feeding them life daphnia every other day... But they didn't make it very long within 6 months all of them perished. They are a tad similar to Otocinclus regarding sensitivity, they stress out easily, this doesn't favour their health.

All tho it's a lively, beautiful and interesting little fish it can be difficult to keep.
 
I have sparkling gouramis with crystal red shrimp in a 45l and they completely ignore eachother. Granted there is a lot of cover in case the shrimp needed to hide, but they never really do. The shrimp haven't had babies yet, but they came in very small and the gouramus never cared, they do have rather small mouths. Perfect for eating daphnia, anything bigger is a bit of a struggle!!
 
Something I would need to know?

Haha, I found the little blighters to be very efficient predators. I had six in a scape once, they hunted as a pack, cornering large adult cherry shrimp. Their modus operandi would be to hover nearly nose to nose with a shrimp until it moved and then the gourami would attack, chasing it around the tank, taking chunks out of it, pulling off the shrimps legs until it died or jumped out the tank.

I know this is not the experience of other folk and I've seen them sold in tanks populated with shrimp and they appear to co-exist quite peacefully. But I know I'm not alone in my experience either. I might have stumbled across a sub-species or a rogue personality. They are highly intelligent and I got the feeling that after one of them discovered hunting shrimp was fun and easy the rest joined in; learnt behaviour.

Check out the Seriously Fish entry, scroll down to the comments below the references. I was known as Troi back then. But either way amazing little fish very interesting to observe and beautiful to look at and I loved listening to them croaking to one another.
 
Haha, I found the little blighters to be very efficient predators. I had six in a scape once, they hunted as a pack, cornering large adult cherry shrimp. Their modus operandi would be to hover nearly nose to nose with a shrimp until it moved and then the gourami would attack, chasing it around the tank, taking chunks out of it, pulling off the shrimps legs until it died or jumped out the tank.
Aha I didn't know that ive had them here and they where quite peaceful they had not much interest in the few shirmp in that tank. But if I read those stories it probably is not the best match if some wants to breed shrimp.
 
I've kept the T. pumila for several times in the same aquarium as the Scarlet badis and the Cherry shrimps. The first time I had to order them because they were not in store... I knew the minimum order amount is 10 individuals, so to also keep the stress level for them as minimum as possible I asked the shop to give me a call the moment they arrive and leave all in the bag. And I took all 10 home. I also know the wholesaler providing all the shops around my place always have wild-caught Pumila's. Then you'll never know the age and you have no idea about life expectancy. After a few months only had half of them still alive so I bought 10 new ones and a year after again a few. In my experience, the wild-caught specimen has an average lifespan of >2 years. I actually got a few to breed in a smaller tank and this offspring lived the longest +/- 3 years.

Regarding character, they are absolutely adorable little rascals, very curious and very bold for their size. They indeed love to harass shrimps... But in my case, the shrimp population was mature enough and the hardscape setup had abundant hiding places for shrimp fry. It is about impossible to eradicate them. Actually, after over 5 years, I still have this very same aquarium running with only 2 fish in it left. I waiting for them to perish of old age and then finally decide to take this tank down and or do something else with it. It still has a load of shrimps, the shrimps survived a few dozens of total 3 different species of potential shrimp hunting fish over a + 5 year period. All but the shrimps are gone by now.

These were to most fierce hunters I had in there at the same time as the pumila's


None of them was able to put the slightest dent in the shrimp population.

I guess it depends highly on, what species of shrimp you have at least you need an easy to breed shrimp. Then the maturity of the population and how the tank is set up to be able to sustain it regarding hiding places for the fry. Simply wait and see long enough how the shrimps do before you decide to add a potential shrimp hunting fish. If you started with few shrimps and after a while can count between 20 and 30 young adults you can bet you have over 3 times as much in hiding. And a lot in plain sight barely noticeable.

Anyway, T. pumila is absolutely gorgeous and interesting fish to keep. They occasionally (more than once a day) croak loud enough to hear it in a relative silent room. They display very nice colours and interesting territorial mating behaviour. Since they are very bold it's best not to keep them with other larger territorial species. If building a nest they will not shy back to attack everything that comes to close and pick a fight they might lose in the end because of the size difference.

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Actually, it's not the full truth I had one in there that did have a noticeable effect on the shrimp numbers and that was a totally different predator. It was Planaria. :) And planaria come with feeding (frozen) life food... At one time it became a plague and the shrimp population drastically declined I had to kill the Planaria off. After that, the shrimp population grew back again.
 
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Actually, it's not the full truth I had one in there that did have a noticeable effect on the shrimp numbers and that was a totally different predator. It was Planaria. :) And planaria come with feeding (frozen) life food... At one time it became a plague and the shrimp population drastically declined I had to kill the Planaria off. After that, the shrimp population grew back again.

Ooh I never had planaria in the frozen foods that I know off.. Wich brand did u use? I always have ruto's..
 
Ooh I never had planaria in the frozen foods that I know off.. Wich brand did u use? I always have ruto's..

I actually do not know the brand I pick from the freezer whatever is available. Usually bloodworms or the quartet package. :) But I guess whatever brand you take it all is farmed in outdoor natural facilities (most likely from semi-tropical regions) and all will or can have planaria eggs in them. And these eggs can easily survive afaik indefinitely the average -18°C freezer temperature it is stored in. And the supplier states it's deep-frozen at -40°C before it's shipped out. Even this seems not to harm these monsters eggs.

That's about over 90% chance to get some planaria eggs coming with it... And I guess 90% of the aquariums that get frozen life food have Planaria. It depends on the numbers of Planaria if you will see them or not, they are mainly nocturnal and during lights on they mainly live in the substrate. Thus not seeing any doesn't mean you don't have any... Tho seeing 1 during the lights on on the glass or where ever you can bet your life on it there are 100x more than you see. Then seeing a number of them it multiplies exponentially and they are meat eaters...

At one time I noticed my shrimp population drastically decline over a few weeks time and the Planaria population grow seeing them al over the place. Once at this stage then even not feeding protiëne doesn't help anymore... They do predate on shrimp (eggs maybe) and or even might be cannibalistic. I have no other clue how I got it any other way in these huge numbers over a few years time.

After giving the tank a decent dosage of NoPlanaria for a period, no more planaria to see, not saying all dead, probably not, but the shrimp population grew back to what it used to be. A lot... :)
 
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There isn't a ton of fish I can think of that would be happy in a small tank and low numbers. Any chance you could go a bit bigger on the tank? 30-40L would give you lots of options for small shoalers.
 
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