Scarlett Badis /Dario Dario

Paulthewitt · 13 Jan 2021

Tim Harrison said:
Haha, I found the little blighters to be very efficient predators. I had six in a scape once, they hunted as a pack, cornering large adult cherry shrimp. Their modus operandi would be to hover nearly nose to nose with a shrimp until it moved and then the gourami would attack, chasing it around the tank, taking chunks out of it, pulling off the shrimps legs until it died or jumped out the tank.

I know this is not the experience of other folk and I've seen them sold in tanks populated with shrimp and they appear to co-exist quite peacefully. But I know I'm not alone in my experience either. I might have stumbled across a sub-species or a rogue personality. They are highly intelligent and I got the feeling that after one of them discovered hunting shrimp was fun and easy the rest joined in; learnt behaviour.

Check out the Seriously Fish entry, scroll down to the comments below the references. I was known as Troi back then. But either way amazing little fish very interesting to observe and beautiful to look at and I loved listening to them croaking to one another.

That is hilarious (assuming you can look back and see the funny side!).
Duly noted... another lovely fish that won't work in this instance!!

Paulthewitt · 13 Jan 2021

zozo said:
I've kept the T. pumila for several times in the same aquarium as the Scarlet badis and the Cherry shrimps. The first time I had to order them because they were not in store... I knew the minimum order amount is 10 individuals, so to also keep the stress level for them as minimum as possible I asked the shop to give me a call the moment they arrive and leave all in the bag. And I took all 10 home. I also know the wholesaler providing all the shops around my place always have wild-caught Pumila's. Then you'll never know the age and you have no idea about life expectancy. After a few months only had half of them still alive so I bought 10 new ones and a year after again a few. In my experience, the wild-caught specimen has an average lifespan of >2 years. I actually got a few to breed in a smaller tank and this offspring lived the longest +/- 3 years.

Regarding character, they are absolutely adorable little rascals, very curious and very bold for their size. They indeed love to harass shrimps... But in my case, the shrimp population was mature enough and the hardscape setup had abundant hiding places for shrimp fry. It is about impossible to eradicate them. Actually, after over 5 years, I still have this very same aquarium running with only 2 fish in it left. I waiting for them to perish of old age and then finally decide to take this tank down and or do something else with it. It still has a load of shrimps, the shrimps survived a few dozens of total 3 different species of potential shrimp hunting fish over a + 5 year period. All but the shrimps are gone by now.

These were to most fierce hunters I had in there at the same time as the pumila's

None of them was able to put the slightest dent in the shrimp population.

I guess it depends highly on, what species of shrimp you have at least you need an easy to breed shrimp. Then the maturity of the population and how the tank is set up to be able to sustain it regarding hiding places for the fry. Simply wait and see long enough how the shrimps do before you decide to add a potential shrimp hunting fish. If you started with few shrimps and after a while can count between 20 and 30 young adults you can bet you have over 3 times as much in hiding. And a lot in plain sight barely noticeable.

Anyway, T. pumila is absolutely gorgeous and interesting fish to keep. They occasionally (more than once a day) croak loud enough to hear it in a relative silent room. They display very nice colours and interesting territorial mating behaviour. Since they are very bold it's best not to keep them with other larger territorial species. If building a nest they will not shy back to attack everything that comes to close and pick a fight they might lose in the end because of the size difference.

Edit:
Actually, it's not the full truth I had one in there that did have a noticeable effect on the shrimp numbers and that was a totally different predator. It was Planaria. And planaria come with feeding (frozen) life food... At one time it became a plague and the shrimp population drastically declined I had to kill the Planaria off. After that, the shrimp population grew back again.

Thanks for taking the time to post this.
I think my shrimp population will be fairly new and the tank is quite small, so I have less chance of getting lucky that the breeding will outdo the predation!
They sound like great fish (all the suggestions too) that are ideas for a bigger tank when I get it. Just wont be right for the 19L spec

Paulthewitt · 13 Jan 2021

tam said:
There isn't a ton of fish I can think of that would be happy in a small tank and low numbers. Any chance you could go a bit bigger on the tank? 30-40L would give you lots of options for small shoalers.

Not at this point - the Spec is on my desk in my home office - so workspace needs to be the priority really!
If it was bigger I would have 10 forktail rainbows - cos I love those little guys and then a load of hiding places for the shrimp. The future plan is to get a 80-90 cm tank on the living room. I am hoping this little tank can breed to populate the bigger one where I will be happier to have the "circle of life" mean that shrimp fry may not make it.

91 · 13 Jan 2021

Small tank +shrimp. Chilli rasbora or the like would probably work.

castle · 13 Jan 2021

zozo · 13 Jan 2021

castle said:
Not necessarily my recomendation, amalgamated from seriouslyfish/fishbase/google. Note, mainly breeding pairs.

Indeed minimum requirements is not really a recommendation...

Especially not when it, as in any official document, is commercially infused... Data like this does not come from the private sector that is for sure, maybe if one bothers to read the comments bellow at seriously fish. But all that data is from breeders, wholesalers, and the scientists/biologists affiliated with the trademarks providing the hardware etc. Don't bite the hand that feeds you!

I've heard Sera employee Dr. Soandso in ecology state in an interview that you should absolutely use whatever bottle of water enhancers Sera produces for making the start of the new aquarium a success. :shh:

IMHO these minimum requirements are more like not enough to die and not enough to properly live. But that is nothing more than a humble opinion based on personal emotional experiences over the years...

It is what it is, it's the only thing the general public has... We can't blame the public to believe this and explore the boundaries... And everybody deserves a chance to learn... Dr Konrad Lorenz cites, once again.

"Every groomed to death Stickleback contributed more to wildlife conservation than any sign at a wildlife park entrance ever did."

(Hopefully)

With other words Lets Rock and Roll Kids... :thumbup:

What goes around comes around.

Scarlett Badis /Dario Dario

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