Sedona - 20L (Liza's Tank - Update)

Themuleous

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Re: Liza's 20L Nano Tank

Yep I agree, no 1. Could imagine that with a lush HC or glosso carpet around the rocks.

Sam

PS - love the DC photo.

EDIT - a word on aesthetics. Rocks in small numbers, say less than 11, should be added in odd numbers. The 1st layout has 6, which unbalances the scape. Perfect if thats what you are going for, but generally its more pleasing to the eye if there are odd numbers. Perhaps remove the front left rock complete, and move the font right rock back towards the other rocks? Just a thought. You'll probably need to try lots of variations before it works :)
 

YzemaN

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Re: Liza's 20L Nano Tank

Neither does it for me, I'm afraid. I guess I'll have to vote for one fo the independents :)
I think you need to align the lines and structure of the rocks. Once you've done that you can always have a play-around to create that much sought after tension in the composition.
Here's an example from nature:
Image

But I'm sure you'll turn out another cracking scape. Really liked the other one!
 

Steve Smith

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Re: Liza's 20L Nano Tank

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say I prefer arrangement 2, appart from the central stone. To me, the central stone is just that, too central. It's also too flat onto the front of the layout. I think if it were rotated and leant to the left (making it part of the cluster on the right) it'd work better. It does however leave you a gap, but that might be a good thing or a bad thing...

Just my opinion :lol:
 

Goodygumdrops

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27 Oct 2008
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Falkirk,Scotland
Re: Liza's 20L Nano Tank

Well,I'm going to be contrary,I am apparently a non conformist btw,and say I also like no2 out of the two choices.Not that I know the last thing about this it just sits better imo.
 

keymaker

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5 Sep 2008
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Budapest, Hungary
Re: Liza's 20L Nano Tank

Thanks so much for all the feedback! It looks like the turnout was good here... :)

For those who preferred the scape #1 I made some small modifications.

Themuleous, now it's 5 rocks. :)
Dan, I took out the FG rock from the right side only, the one on the left balances the composition, so it needs to be there for me.

3.


For those who preferred the scape #2 or the "independents" :) :

YzemaN, I agree with you completely, usually it is highly desirable to have the lines aligned. Initially, I had a couple of setups with that in mind - none of which were good enough to post. These rocks are just too eclectic. I will try to experiment further.

Steve, I will do another version later on with your suggestion in mind - it will also be in line with YzemaN's theory. Please check back later.
 

keymaker

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Re: Liza's 20L Nano Tank

Thanks for the suggestion, Tom. I get your point but placing the rock there would kinda block the "incoming open channel from the point of first focus. Hope this makes sense... :)

3. (analysis)


4. (all hail inspirations from the nature)


To help better understand my intentions with the last scape (4) here's the planting plan: the BG in the right is going to be filled with a thick bush of Hemianthus Micranthemoides that will reach the surface. The whole FG and around the rocks is HC. I am considering maybe some Pogostemon Helferii to act as transition. HC or some moss on and between the rocks (not decided yet, I am open to ideas).

So it's between 3 and 4 now. Please hurry with your new votes - the US polls are closing soon. :)
Tell me what you think.
 

keymaker

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5 Sep 2008
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Budapest, Hungary
Re: Liza's 20L Nano Tank

Poll closed, rescape done. Some Microsorum pteropus 'Windeløv' still missing from the BG (right). A couple of quick pictures:













What do you think?

I know that many of us have been dosing Easy Carbo in tanks with shrimp. I was wondering though if there is a dose amount above which Easy Carbo is not really good for shrimp. I increased dosage to 1.5 ml / 20l for a couple of days and I found a shrimp dead.
 

YzemaN

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Re: Liza's 20L Nano Tank

Neat! I like how the rock on the right form a tunnel in the angled shot but a canyon in the straight shot. I'm looking forward to see how it develops. And you've chucked in Boraras brigittae. Lovely little fish, I have 15 (left...) in mine. They'll soon get used to you and shoot straight to the surface anytime you go near the tank. Greedy little buggers :) I am using EasyCarbo on a similar sized tank, and my RCS don't seem affected at all. In fact they're breeding like crazy, picking up every little bit of food that falls to the bottom, so now my snail infestation has turned into a shrimp infestation :? They are a lot more fun to watch than snails, so until next time they breed I don't have to worry about what to do with the surplus.
 

vauxhallmark

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29 Jan 2008
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Re: Liza's 20L Nano Tank

It looks FANTASTIC!

Those rocks are unrecognisable underwater - when they were dry they gave no indication of their colours!

Agree with YzemaN about the canyon/tunnel effect too - make sure nothing grows through it!

And, of course, everyone loves a full room shot - b r a v e ! Nice MacBookPro. ;) I like how you used iPhoto to organise your rock pics - talk about hi-tec!

Can't wait to see it growing and developing.

All the best,

Mark
 

keymaker

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5 Sep 2008
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Budapest, Hungary
Re: Liza's 20L Nano Tank

Thanks all. :oops: It's the UKAPS influence that drives me....

I hope I'll be able to run it without algae issues. The past has shown that even minor nutrient underdosing or a couple of CO2 fluctuations can cause wild algae blooms with the high lighting in this really small tank.

I currently dose 1ml / 20l / day Easy Carbo and 2ml / 20l / day TPN+ with water changes every second day. Will gradually slow that down to one WC every week later on.

Vito, Liza is my little daughter. It's her tank after all. Hence the dolls and toys on the room shot... :lol:

vauxhallmark, I have a secret - I bleached the rocks in acid before putting them into the tank. That cleared most of the grey crust.

Second poll: what kind of plant would you put in the empty space on the right (behind the rocks)? I would maybe use some Eleocharis or Java Fern (Windelow?) there?...
 

keymaker

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5 Sep 2008
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Re: Liza's 20L Nano Tank

How many days after planting the HC am I supposed to see them pearling?

Looking at James' DIY TPN+ nutrient table I'm supposed to have 41.3ppm NO3, 2.17ppm PO4 and 26.6ppm K, 2.38ppm Mg in the tank which falls within the EI range of optimal growth.

CO2 drop checker is lime green with a really good circulation (25x). If you say I'm supposed so see bubbling by now, I'll crank up the CO2 some more even with the drop checker in the OK category.
 

keymaker

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Budapest, Hungary
Re: Liza's 20L Nano Tank

OK, so I dose 2 ml TPN+ every day with 50% wc every second day. Based on James' formula I add 5.9ppm NO3 and 0.31ppm PO4 with each dose. Cumulated amount is 2x5.9=11.8ppm NO3 and 0.62ppm PO4 in two days.

Please confirm that I must then have 2x11.8=23.6ppm NO3 and 2x0.62=1.24ppm PO4 in the tank through the whole week based on the EI rules. Is this correct?
 

vauxhallmark

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29 Jan 2008
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Re: Liza's 20L Nano Tank

keymaker said:
OK, so I dose 2 ml TPN+ every day with 50% wc every second day. Based on James' formula I add 5.9ppm NO3 and 0.31ppm PO4 with each dose. Cumulated amount is 2x5.9=11.8ppm NO3 and 0.62ppm PO4 in two days.

Please confirm that I must then have 2x11.8=23.6ppm NO3 and 2x0.62=1.24ppm PO4 in the tank through the whole week based on the EI rules. Is this correct?

You are figures are correct, but they are the maximum levels, and occur only on the day without a water change.

Here's a simple way to check it - let's just look at Nitrate.

Open a spreadsheet (in Excel or openoffice). In cell A1 type 0.
In cell A2 type "=A1+5.9" (no quotes). This is the non water change day.
in cell A3 type "=(A2/2)+5.9" (no quotes). This is the water change day, where you remove half of the nitrate, and then add 5.9 again.

Highlight cells A2 and A3 and drag the drag handle at the bottom right of the coloured highlight down for 20 or 30 rows. You'll see that if you drag down far enough (over 27 rows) it will stabilise at 17.7 on wc day, and 23.6 on the other day.

Here are the assumptions we've made to create this simplified model:

~ You are able to measure your dosing accurately
~ There is no other source of Nitrate (no fish food etc)
~ The water used for water changes contains 0 Nitrate
~ There is no uptake of Nitrate (by plants or bacteria or any other means) in the tank - hopefully a false assumption!

If 1 is not true then the model is wrong.
If 2 is wrong (likely!) then reality will be higher than the model's output.
If 3 is not true then reality will again be higher than what the model shows.
If 4 is not true (I hope it is untrue!!) then the real figure will be lower than the model.

So, what I'm saying is, yes, your maths are correct, but really, who can tell? 1,2,3 and 4 will all affect the nitrate levels. If your plants aren't growing then add a bit more, maybe they're taking up more than you expected!

Good luck with this great tank,

Mark
 
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