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Semi Planted Wild Discus Tank Full HD Video with soundtrack

REDSTEVEO

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Joined
31 Mar 2008
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Planet Earth
Hi All,

Most of you will remember this tank previously as 'The Full Monty' which now no longer exists as it was. It has evolved into a home for 5 x Wild Red Spotted Green Discus from the Rio Nannay in Peru, and 2 x Wild Solid Royals.

Originally the remaining plants I had left were still planted in ADA Amazonia substrate, but this was difficult to maintain, especially with the amount of dark brown poop from the discus which was hard to spot amongst the substrate, so Nitrates were high which wild discus dislike.

So out came the substrate and in went JBL Sansibar River Sand. I used some of the original substrate in glass storage jars to replant some big Amazon Sword plants and capped them off with some of the river sand.

I have got four pieces of Manzanita Wood planted with Trident, Java Fern and Anubias suspended from the back of the tank to break things up a bit. I am going to be removing most of the plants in storage jars and creating more free space to suspend wood roots from the top of the tank and plant these with more ferns and Anubias.

In the last week I have been following advice from Clive Brampton at Northants Discus on how to get these wilds stimulated into showing signs of pairing activity and possibly breeding. Clive suggested a TDS of 60 degrees, PH of 6.0 and water temperature of 29.5. This worked for his wild discus which have spawned so I am giving it a try.

Over the last week I have been changing water daily and letting it fill back up by drip feeding pure RO water into the tank. So far the TDS has dropped from 240 degrees to 90 degrees over a week, PH down from 6.9 to 6.2 and the temperature is steady at 29 degrees.

I have been warned of a potential PH crash by just adding pure RO water, the question is do I add Bicarbonate of Soda to buffer the PH or add the Seachem Discus Pro Remineral salts. I don't want to add something that bumps the TDS right back up again.

The big Amazons will be for sale once removed.

One thing I have noticed is that my Co2 Drop checker has changed colour from lime green to lemon yellow, so is this a direct correlation to the drop in PH, or is there somehow more Co2 in the water? I have not had any Co2 running on the tank for many months now as it is low lighting low tech.

Here are a few photographs taken last night under two different light settings from the LED light unit. Hope you enjoy them!

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Hi all,
Beautiful wild discus!
They are lovely.
I have been warned of a potential PH crash by just adding pure RO water
I wouldn't get too bogged down with an an ideal pH, it is never going to be stable in soft water. When fish die from acidosis both fish death and low pH are symptoms of the problem, but low pH doesn't cause the fish death. As you approach pure H2O pH becomes a less and less meaningful parameter.

I think there are pH/Conductivity values in <"Heiko Bleher's book">, if you've got it? I don't have a copy, but there are water values in some papers, and this one is worth a read:
Küchler, I. et al (2000) "A Contribution to the Chemical Characterization of Rivers in the Rio Negro Basin, Brazil " J. Braz. Chem. Soc. 11:3 <"http://www.scielo.br/scielo.php?script=sci_arttext&pid=S0103-50532000000300015">.
Rio Negro, Barcelos pH4.42, conductivity 14.5 microS (so about 10ppm TDS).
the question is do I add Bicarbonate of Soda to buffer the PH or add the Seachem Discus Pro Remineral salts. I don't want to add something that bumps the TDS right back up again.
Any salts that you add will raise the TDS. Having said that I don't think it really matter what you use, because you are only going to add a very small amount.

Purely personally I would add either, sodium bicarbonate (NaH2CO3) because that adds sodium (Na) and that isn't great in a planted tank. Same applies to the proprietary salt mixes, they tend to be expensive ways of buying sodium chloride (NaCl).

You could use a mix of potassium bicarbonate (NaH2CO3), calcium chloride (CaCl) and Epsom Salts (MgSO4.7H2O) (all cheap for food grade from Ebay etc). Again you are only going to need a very small amount.

An interesting point is TDS meter doesn't actually measure ppm TDS, it measure electrical conductivity in microSiemens, and then uses a conversion factor to estimate the TDS in ppm. If you have 60ppm TDS, that is about 100microS conductivity. If you could get proper TDS values for the Rio Negro etc (by evaporating a sample of water to dryness and weighing the residue), they would be much, much higher than the conductivity readings because of all the humic and tannic substances in the water that don't conduct electricity.

All the videos of Discus in their natural habitat are in the <"dry season">, when they are clustered in rivers and lakes, with their lives on hold, waiting for that water to rise. As soon as the rains come they are going to be out into the flooded forest, feeding among the <"leaf litter"> on the forest floor.

cheers Darrel
 
Is it just me or are these the type of pictures that make you think should I have another go with Discus? :D Really beautiful fish you have there. Was looking forward to the FTS :rolleyes:
 
Darrel,

Thanks ever so much for this reply. As ever very informative with lots of facts, advice and help, nothing less expected from dw1305.

I have a tub of MGSO4 in the cupboard and a tub of Calcium so got most if not all the ingredients required to make up this mix. This evening the TDS is reading bang on 60 and the PH showing on the digital display from the Dupla unit is 5.97. The discus are looking radiant in colour, just waiting now to see if here is an change in their behaviour i.e showing some signs of interest in each other apart from feeding time.

Any suggestions as to why the colour in the CO2 drop checker has changed from lime green to very bright yellow?

Updates to follow in the coming days / weeks.

Cheers,

Steve
 
Is it just me or are these the type of pictures that make you think should I have another go with Discus? :D Really beautiful fish you have there. Was looking forward to the FTS :rolleyes:

Hi AverageWhiteBloke, sorry to disappoint on the FTS, I will take some later and post them up in the next post.

You are right in what you say, it was a video on YouTube that swayed me back again to keeping Discus. It was a bit of a rough ride at the start, lost two in the first month, one to Hole in The Head a Disease and the other to 'whirling disease. But the reward of seeing them as they are now is well worth it.

Cheers

Steve
 
I had various failures with young discus when I was younger through ignorance. Did a lot of reading on them and came across a breeding pair of solid blue cobalt. They were beautiful fish, loads of character and would take Frozen bloodworm out of my hand. They really felt like pets. Unfortunately while I was away working my nephew poured vimto into the tank and first I heard was when the missus phoned up to say they were swimming on their sides! Couldn't explain to the people I was working for that I needed to travel home couple of days early because something was wrong with my fish, I don't think they would have understood :D recruited a friend of mine to go over and change some water who had normal fish himself but it was all too late.

That sickened me to the core and knocked me off the hobby for a while, decided with working away I didn't have the time the fish deserved but on the plus side I turned the temp down and added a few plants which got me the plant bug again.

My lfs is a professional Discus breeder but doesn't keep them on display in the shop but in a breeding house out the back. He has some magnificent fish and I often get tempted to get half a dozen small ones but my tank is only 600x450x450. They would quickly out grow it but one day.... Maybe. Nothing better than to see Discus gliding amongst some plants.
Your tank will have to be my fix for now :D look forward to seeing more pics.
 
Hi All,

Most of you will remember this tank previously as 'The Full Monty' which now no longer exists as it was. It has evolved into a home for 5 x Wild Red Spotted Green Discus from the Rio Nannay in Peru, and 2 x Wild Solid Royals.

Originally the remaining plants I had left were still planted in ADA Amazonia substrate, but this was difficult to maintain, especially with the amount of dark brown poop from the discus which was hard to spot amongst the substrate, so Nitrates were high which wild discus dislike.

So out came the substrate and in went JBL Sansibar River Sand. I used some of the original substrate in glass storage jars to replant some big Amazon Sword plants and capped them off with some of the river sand.

I have got four pieces of Manzanita Wood planted with Trident, Java Fern and Anubias suspended from the back of the tank to break things up a bit. I am going to be removing most of the plants in storage jars and creating more free space to suspend wood roots from the top of the tank and plant these with more ferns and Anubias.

In the last week I have been following advice from Clive Brampton at Northants Discus on how to get these wilds stimulated into showing signs of pairing activity and possibly breeding. Clive suggested a TDS of 60 degrees, PH of 6.0 and water temperature of 29.5. This worked for his wild discus which have spawned so I am giving it a try.

Over the last week I have been changing water daily and letting it fill back up by drip feeding pure RO water into the tank. So far the TDS has dropped from 240 degrees to 90 degrees over a week, PH down from 6.9 to 6.2 and the temperature is steady at 29 degrees.

I have been warned of a potential PH crash by just adding pure RO water, the question is do I add Bicarbonate of Soda to buffer the PH or add the Seachem Discus Pro Remineral salts. I don't want to add something that bumps the TDS right back up again.

The big Amazons will be for sale once removed.

One thing I have noticed is that my Co2 Drop checker has changed colour from lime green to lemon yellow, so is this a direct correlation to the drop in PH, or is there somehow more Co2 in the water? I have not had any Co2 running on the tank for many months now as it is low lighting low tech.

Here are a few photographs taken last night under two different light settings from the LED light unit. Hope you enjoy them!

View attachment 102182

View attachment 102183

View attachment 102184

View attachment 102185

View attachment 102186

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Wow i would love to see them for my self. Beautiful fish

Cheers
Ryan
 
Hi all,
I have a tub of MGSO4 in the cupboard and a tub of Calcium so got most if not all the ingredients required to make up this mix.
Brilliant, that would cover dGH, you would just need some potassium bicarbonate (KHCO3) for the dKH.
Any suggestions as to why the colour in the CO2 drop checker has changed from lime green to very bright yellow?
Yes, the pH of the drop checker solution has fallen below pH6 (see below), and the narrow range pH indicator (bromothymol blue) has changed colour.
1270.jpg


If you still have drop checker solution made up to 4dKH? Then you have a huge and toxic amount of dissolved CO2, via the CO2 ~ HCO3- ~ CO3 ~ pH equilibrium.

If you don't have an air gap? or the 4dKH solution is diluted, you have a lesser (but unknown) amount of dissolved CO2.

cheers Darrel
 
I had various failures with young discus when I was younger through ignorance. Did a lot of reading on them and came across a breeding pair of solid blue cobalt. They were beautiful fish, loads of character and would take Frozen bloodworm out of my hand. They really felt like pets. Unfortunately while I was away working my nephew poured vimto into the tank and first I heard was when the missus phoned up to say they were swimming on their sides! Couldn't explain to the people I was working for that I needed to travel home couple of days early because something was wrong with my fish, I don't think they would have understood :D recruited a friend of mine to go over and change some water who had normal fish himself but it was all too late.

That sickened me to the core and knocked me off the hobby for a while, decided with working away I didn't have the time the fish deserved but on the plus side I turned the temp down and added a few plants which got me the plant bug again.

My lfs is a professional Discus breeder but doesn't keep them on display in the shop but in a breeding house out the back. He has some magnificent fish and I often get tempted to get half a dozen small ones but my tank is only 600x450x450. They would quickly out grow it but one day.... Maybe. Nothing better than to see Discus gliding amongst some plants.
Your tank will have to be my fix for now :D look forward to seeing more pics.

Hi,

Sorry to hear of your past experiences in keeping discus.:arghh:

I don't know anyone who has kept discus that hasn't had a disaster at some stage while keeping them. Years ago I had a planted tank with loads of Riccia Fluitans tied to wood and rocks. I went away for a week and while I was away all the Riccia broke free and got sucked into the inlet on my filter. Completely blocked it up causing it to malfunction, when I got back all the discus were floating upside down a the top of the tank. They were all dead and the tank smelled disgusting. It gave my kids nightmares for weeks after.

Sadly at the expense of our fish we learn by experience, and we never stop learning. When they get diseases or won't eat it gets really stressful, especially if they start to waste away to the point where they are beyond saving. But...that's why we have forums like this and BIDKA to share our knowledge and experiences so hopefully others won't make the same mistakes;)

Cheers,

Steve
 
Wow i would love to see them for my self. Beautiful fish

Cheers
Ryan

Hi Ryan,

I don't know where you live but you are welcome to come and see them for yourself if you like. The same invitation goes for anyone from UKAPS, if you are passing by North Wales, not far from Chester, you are welcome to call in for a tea or coffee and a good natter about our hobby, in particular discus fish.

Cheers,

Steve
 
Hi Darrel,

Thanks for the detailed explanation, very informative. Last night the PH reading was bobbing around a bit on the digital display around 5.87 PH. All the discus and marbled hatchet fish seem perfectly fine. I think this is because the change has occurred very slowly over a week, so they have adapted to it. Hopefully when I get back tonight everything is okay.

Updates with FTS for AverageWhiteBloke later!

Cheers,

Steve
 
Amazing, beautiful fish;)

Thanks Tim,

This is the first time I have kept Wild Discus and I must say they are better than any previous domestic bred discus I have had in the past. The pictures don't do them full justice, to see them for real close up is a joy to behold. I am going to find the video on YouTube that kicked me into getting these fish, which I should add I had to travel all the way to Hull to pick them up!

Cheers,

Steve
 
Well here is the video of Wild Jutai Green Discus that got me started with discus again for about the 10th time.

Watch it if you dare, but don't blame if you find yourself rushing out to spend "loadsamoney" on a bigger tank so you can go out and spend even more "loadsamoney" for a shed full of Wild Discus...:lol:



Cheers,

Steve
 
Hi all,
Last night the PH reading was bobbing around a bit on the digital display around 5.87 PH.
The pH will fluctuate more as the water gets softer. You don't the composition of the ions measured by the conductivity (TDS), but by the time you get below ~100 microS you know there aren't many ions of any description.

If you want to appreciate just how little salts there are in soft water, take a cupful of tank-water, pop the TDS meter in it, and then add some table salt, a couple of grains at a time.
One thing I have noticed is that my Co2 Drop checker has changed colour from lime green to lemon yellow, so is this a direct correlation to the drop in PH, or is there somehow more Co2 in the water? I have not had any Co2 running on the tank for many months now as it is low lighting low tech.
All the discus and marbled hatchet fish seem perfectly fine. I think this is because the change has occurred very slowly over a week, so they have adapted to it.
That should be fine, if you aren't adding any CO2 you don't need to worry about the CO2 level.

cheers Darrel
 
Is it just me or are these the type of pictures that make you think should I have another go with Discus? :D Really beautiful fish you have there. Was looking forward to the FTS :rolleyes:

The Full Tank Shots
Especially for you, sorry they are taken under the moonlight setting so look a bit blue. Next time I'll post some under normal lighting:)

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