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Small yellow spots on plants.

Luketendo

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25 Feb 2008
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Australia
I'll start with my stats:

Tank: 120L Approx. / 32USG / 27 UKG (60cmL X 40cmD X 60cmH)
Filter: Juwel Internal Filter 600lph, Fluval 104 480lph.
Lighting: 2 x 24W Juwel T5HOs.
CO2: None.
Substrate: 2cm Tetraplant Complete Substrate, 1cm Pea Gravel, 4cm Argos Playsand.
Fertilisers: KN03, KH2PO4 and Trace solutions. 25ml of KN03 + KH2PO4 on one day and 25ml of trace on the other. 2.5ml of Easycarbo per day.

Lately, ever since I started dosing ferts some of my plants have started getting yellow specks. Notably these are Cryptocoryne wendtii and Echinodorus tenellus, both in the foreground. Both plants seem to to have yellow specks on them which I think are getting worse, I do not know why! Also some (not many) of my Hygrophila Polysperma leaves have turned yellow and rotted. I'm not sure why this is happening :(.
 

ceg4048

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Hi,
50 watts T5 is a fair amount of light on a 30G, especially if you have reflectors. Using Excel only may require a bit more. To be honest I have no idea what 25ml of KNO3 + KH2PO4 means in terms of teaspoon or ppm so it's very difficult o determine anything regarding the dosing. It also appears that you are dosing the NPK only once a week which, unless it's a full teaspoon's worth of KNO3 and a quarter teaspoon KH2PO4 may be insufficient. It almost appears you are doing a low tech approach with high tech lighting. Could you clarify?

Cheers,
 

Luketendo

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My lights don't have reflectors (I think that was advice from you.) The lights came with the tank, so I'd have to downgrade or something.

Your mistaken about my dosing, I dose each mix on alternative days, NPK one day, Trace the other.

This is what I use:

The first is made up using 500ml of water. (mix 1)
3tsp. Potassium Nitrate (KN03)
1/2tsp Potassium Phosphate (KH2P04)

The second is also made with 500ml of water. (mix 2)
1tsp Trace

Do you think I'm not using enough easycarbo?

My ferts would convert to 0.15 tsp KN03 and 0.025 KH2PO4 every other day and 0.05 tsp Trace every other day.

Also I have amazon frogbit on the top I don't know if that's causing any problems.
 

Ray

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31 Oct 2007
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You could try dosing the easycarbo as per the heavily planted tank dose on the label, which is double your dose I think.

You say leaves are going yellow - is the new growth coming and is it healthy and green? If your plants are new and were grown emersed then it may be normal for the older emersed leaves to die off as new better adapted ones grow.

I'll let someone with more experience than me comment on the dosing (I'm a lazy TPN+ guy myself)
 

ceg4048

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Hi,
I think something might have gone wrong in the arithmetic :wideyed: The reference dosing for 30 gallons goes as follows:
3X per week 0.25 teaspoon KNO3
3X per week 0.0625 teaspoon KH2PO4
3X per week 0.875 teaspoon MgSO4 (depending on tap Mg content)
2X per week 0.125 teaspoon traces

I'm not sure why the frogbit would be a suspect in this case. If it covers the surface that would actually be a help to lower the light.

Yellow spots have been strongly correlated to Mg deficiency. Leaves turning yellow followed by decay has been strongly correlated to Nitrogen deficiency.

I would either half the light or increase the dosages as per above. It's hard to judge the quantity required of the liquid carbon. You might be OK with the current carbon dosage for now but the macro/micro dosing seems suspect based on your description.

Ray said:
(I'm a lazy TPN+ guy myself)

No, not lazy mate, just rich... :lol: :lol: :lol:

Cheers,
 

Ray

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ceg4048 said:
Ray said:
(I'm a lazy TPN+ guy myself)
No, not lazy mate, just rich... :lol: :lol: :lol:
:lol: :lol: :lol: If only mate, if only...

Actually, its not so bad. 500ml = 15 Euros in Germany (where everything aquarium except arcadia lights converts from pounds to euros 1:1), lasts me 6 months and I don't have to faff with powders. If you don't mind the German and know someone who goes there regularly try: http://www.aquasabi.de. Aquasoil is 30 euros rather than 30 pounds too, but you don't get free shipping like AE.

Now the zeolite, that's my bugbear ATM, its even harder to find than TPN+ and heavy and pricey.

Luke - sounds like you should boost your dosing. Do be patient, only the new growth will show signs of picking up.
 

johnny70

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I'm dosing 6ml (everyday) of easycarbo on a 90ltr tank, I also us the same ferts but at 20ml of each mix.

JOHNNY
 

Luketendo

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I don't know how much Mg is in my water, but my GH is like 7.

My ferts would convert to 0.15 tsp KN03 and 0.025 KH2PO4 every other day and 0.05 tsp Trace every other day.

So that's 0.525 tsp KNO3 a week and 0.0875 tsp KH2PO4 a week and 0.175 tsp trace a week.

So you recomend
3X per week 0.25 teaspoon KNO3 = 0.75 tsp
3X per week 0.0625 teaspoon KH2PO4 = 0.1875 tsp
3X per week 0.875 teaspoon MgSO4 (depending on tap Mg content) = 2.625 tsp (if I need this).
2X per week 0.125 teaspoon traces = 0.25 tsp

I'd need to increase KNO3 by 50% but KH2PO4 by 115%, I'd need to redo my mixture then.
I'd need to dose about 40% more trace also.
I assume MgSO4 can be mixed with KNO3 and KH2PO4.

Now I need to work out my new solutions... I quite like dosing 25ml a day.
I'd also quite like to keep dosing trace 3x a week, since it's easier.
Since I like dosing 25ml/day, and I use 500ml water, since I'd be making 20 days worth.
Trace
0.25/3= 0.08 per dose. 0.08*20= 1.6tsp per 500ml

Now onto the other mix
KNO3
0.75/3= 0.25 per dose. 0.25*20= 5tsp per 500ml
KH2PO4
0.1875/3= 0.0625 per dose. 0.0625*20= 1.25 tsp per 500ml
MgSO4
2.625/3= 0.875 per dose. 0.875*20= 17.5 tsp per 500ml

Wow MgSO4 would be like using 100g per month and a half, I hope I don't need that, but I probably will.
What do you think, is that right? Hopefully, because hopefully I should be getting A* in maths.

But then again since Johnny has experience maybe I should dose more carbon...
 

ceg4048

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Hi,
I'm finding it a bit odd that you choose to use a 20 dose supply. 20 doses at 3 doses per week will last for 6.66 weeks (which is a bit scary due to demonic numerology :wideyed: ) That complicates things a bit as I always do a 4 week supply with 600 ml water. That makes it easy to calculate because the dosages are always 50ml. If you have a special affinity for 25ml doses then just use 300 ml of water. If you check the EI dry dosing article ( viewtopic.php?f=34&t=1211) you can just multiply the reference data by 3/2 (30G/20G).

The 30G data would look like this:
1 month = 4 Weeks
3 doses of NPK per week
Therefore there are 12 doses of NPK per month.
Multiply a single dose teaspoon value by 12 => [1/4 tsp KNO3]*12 = 3 tsp KNO3
[3/32 tsp KH2PO4]*12 = 1 tsp KH2PO4 (more or less)
[7/8 tsp MgSO4]*12 = 10.5 tsp MgSO4

Your numbers work out to be more or less the same so I wouldn't worry about it.

We don't know how much Mg is actually in your tap. GH 7 tells us absolutely nothing because GH is a measure of both Mg and Ca, but the number does not tell us how much of each, so the water could be all Mg, or all Ca or half-and-half or any ratio. There is no way to tell unless you test (which I abhor :twisted: ). You can start with the reference amount of MgSO4 and then slowly use less and less to see how little you can get away with. Epsom Salts is really cheap at Boots so that's the good news.

Underwater plants can never have enough carbon so you may need to increase this but I can't say how much.

Cheers,
 

Luketendo

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ceg4048 said:
Hi,
I'm finding it a bit odd that you choose to use a 20 dose supply. 20 doses at 3 doses per week will last for 6.66 weeks (which is a bit scary due to demonic numerology :wideyed: ) That complicates things a bit as I always do a 4 week supply with 600 ml water. That makes it easy to calculate because the dosages are always 50ml. If you have a special affinity for 25ml doses then just use 300 ml of water. If you check the EI dry dosing article ( http://www.ukaps.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=1211) you can just multiply the reference data by 3/2 (30G/20G).

The 30G data would look like this:
1 month = 4 Weeks
3 doses of NPK per week
Therefore there are 12 doses of NPK per month.
Multiply a single dose teaspoon value by 12 => [1/4 tsp KNO3]*12 = 3 tsp KNO3
[3/32 tsp KH2PO4]*12 = 1 tsp KH2PO4 (more or less)
[7/8 tsp MgSO4]*12 = 10.5 tsp MgSO4

Your numbers work out to be more or less the same so I wouldn't worry about it.

We don't know how much Mg is actually in your tap. GH 7 tells us absolutely nothing because GH is a measure of both Mg and Ca, but the number does not tell us how much of each, so the water could be all Mg, or all Ca or half-and-half or any ratio. There is no way to tell unless you test (which I abhor :twisted: ). You can start with the reference amount of MgSO4 and then slowly use less and less to see how little you can get away with. Epsom Salts is really cheap at Boots so that's the good news.

Underwater plants can never have enough carbon so you may need to increase this but I can't say how much.

Cheers,

Ok I might as well bring the MgSO4 down to 10 tsp then. I guess that's for use with 300ml of water? 25ml works for me because I can measure it in the easycarbo lid. Ok I will get my Mum to look out of Epsom salts. I'd assume they'd still sell if it's not for medical use? I found on the internet it's about £2 per 500g at boots. I suppose it'd be fine.
 

ceg4048

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Luketendo said:
Ok I might as well bring the MgSO4 down to 10 tsp then. I guess that's for use with 300ml of water? 25ml works for me because I can measure it in the easycarbo lid. Ok I will get my Mum to look out of Epsom salts. I'd assume they'd still sell if it's not for medical use? I found on the internet it's about £2 per 500g at boots. I suppose it'd be fine.

Yep, Epsom salts is just used to put in your bathtub. I think it might actually be a placebo. :rolleyes: If the clerk asks, tell her you need it for soaking your tired feet from standing in the queue. :D

Cheers,
 

Luketendo

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ceg4048 said:
Luketendo said:
Ok I might as well bring the MgSO4 down to 10 tsp then. I guess that's for use with 300ml of water? 25ml works for me because I can measure it in the easycarbo lid. Ok I will get my Mum to look out of Epsom salts. I'd assume they'd still sell if it's not for medical use? I found on the internet it's about £2 per 500g at boots. I suppose it'd be fine.

Yep, Epsom salts is just used to put in your bathtub. I think it might actually be a placebo. :rolleyes: If the clerk asks, tell her you need it for soaking your tired feet from standing in the queue. :D

Cheers,

So I put those amounts in 300ml of water?
 

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