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Stunted frogbit roots

Simmo

Member
Joined
11 Dec 2020
Messages
311
Location
Scotland
Hi,
When I first set up this tank two years ago I had to regularly trim the frogbit roots that would be about a foot long and pull out handfuls of plants every water change. Now, the roots have not grown for months, staying at a few inches long. I initially thought this was a good thing as they must be getting what they need from a short root, after all why expend energy on growing more root than you need?
Now I’m not sure having read that roots should grow luxuriantly to their full potential and short roots suggest a light or nutrition problem. It is true that the volume of frogbit does not increase like it used to.
So should I be looking to increase light and/or ferts to stimulate the frogbit?
Leaf health looks OK to me - but what do I know?!
Tank is low tech 200 litre with 5ml daily of TNC complete, 8 hours of LED light a day (65% brightness though), Water v.soft, no nitrate, ammonia or nitrite.
I suppose I’m more interested than concerned, the other plants do OK but maybe the frogbit is indicating things could be optimised?
Pics to follow
Cheers
 
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Hi all,
Now I’m not sure having read that roots should grow luxuriantly to their full potential and short roots suggest a light or nutrition problem. It is true that the volume of frogbit does not increase like it used to.
What do the new leaves look like, are they smaller and paler? It is difficult to tell because of the red cast of the light. If they are? Have a look at <"Frogbit taken a turn"> & <"Amazon Frogbit">.

cheers Darrel
 
Hi @Simmo, I have Frogbits in my two low-tech tanks.

Tank 1 (traditional fertilizer regime - moderately high NPK/traces): The Frogbits are propagating at a high rate. I scoop out many fistfuls every time I do my WC (every 11-12 days). They are very healthy green - somewhat lighter green, but no signs of deficiency. I do tend to remove mainly the smaller ones and keep the large plants going. The roots on the frogbit stays rather short as well - Similar to yours in the picture, if not shorter, I would say.

Tank 2 (very lean dosed - 1 ppm of N/11 days, very low traces, higher light intensity): The Frogbits looks very healthy - somewhat darker green leaves compared to Tank 1. Propagation is much slower, but the individual plants are growing larger. Moreover, in this tank the roots grows very long as well (somewhat unattractive when they get very long).

Darrel can explain this much better, but to me it looks as the individual Frogbit plants in tank 2 are allocating more resources to uptake and growth while in Tank 1, where nutrients are more abundant, the plants are more focused on propagation which may in turn lead to smaller individual plants ?

Cheers,
Michael
 
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Thank you both, almost certainly nutrient related then? The new and old leaves don’t appear markedly different colour Darrell but maybe smaller , at least to my eye, will take another pic or two
I do like your explanation Michael and it matches my hypothesis(does it?) that the plant would only deploy short roots in nutrient rixh water?
I forgot to say have recently started weekly dosing with Seachem Flourish iron (Ferrous iron gluconate) as some new stem plants appeared rather pale; today was the first time I have removed a handful of frogbit for at least 12 months. Maybe coincidence, maybe not.
Cheers
 

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The leaves are healthy, but your frogbit roots are being eaten. You added a new partially or fully vegetarian fish like a Serevum and it is eating the roots. Look at them, they have been systematically 'cut'. Many things eat frogbit roots. Ramshorn snails for instance will eat the fine filaments extending laterally first leaving only the central stem, and then eat the central stem a bit too. That is not happening here as the fine lateral roots are intact, but the photos tell me something is eating it from the bottom up. As soon as a root grows too long it gets noticed and is eaten.
 
The leaves are healthy, but your frogbit roots are being eaten. You added a new partially or fully vegetarian fish like a Serevum and it is eating the roots. Look at them, they have been systematically 'cut'. Many things eat frogbit roots. Ramshorn snails for instance will eat the fine filaments extending laterally first leaving only the central stem, and then eat the central stem a bit too. That is not happening here as the fine lateral roots are intact, but the photos tell me something is eating it from the bottom up. As soon as a root grows too long it gets noticed and is eaten.

Neat idea, the most likely candidate would be the male honey gourami who spends a lot of time building and tending his bubble nest. I spent a few hours watching yesterday and he didn’t nibble a root end once but I’ll keep watching over the w/e. I think the roots area uniform length from when I last cut them months ago. No snails up there just now and the other fish don’t go there.
 
Neat idea, the most likely candidate would be the male honey gourami who spends a lot of time building and tending his bubble nest. I spent a few hours watching yesterday and he didn’t nibble a root end once but I’ll keep watching over the w/e. I think the roots area uniform length from when I last cut them months ago. No snails up there just now and the other fish don’t go there.
Yes, in my assessment this is not predation - the roots wouldn't be as uniform if so.... also, I have many ramshorn snails in my shrimp tank (the Tank 1 mentioned above) and I have never seen my ramshorns attaching to the root of the frogbits... Not saying they don't when I am not around, I just that I haven't seen it.

Cheers,
Michael
 
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