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Stunted rotala rotundifolia

Crossocheilus

Crossocheilus

Member
Joined
23 Mar 2014
Messages
539
Location
Oxford
I have grown this plant a few times and it always seems to end up with this same stunting/deficiency but only on some parts of some stems.

5923f6fa2889cba5ae9cb9d583bc9207.jpg


The tank is 180L 90x45x45cm
2x 39W t5 30cm from water surface
Full EI as per the EI guide on the forum (adjusted to tank size), split into daily doses.
2x 1400lph filters through 2 full length spray bars at the back.
CO2 from inline atomizer at 4bps from jbl counter (8bps from co2 art counter) 1 point pH drop by lights on 7.96 -7.98 and yellow dc by end of 6 hours photoperiod.
Hard water, kh 9.5, GH 19

So what's going on?
 
I have the Green sp. variety but had the stunting problem (the nodes became shorter and the tip got smaller) only when:

- I dosed not enough trace elements

- I ran out of CO2.

- my tank had chronic cyanobacteria problem.

- the base stems were too old.

BTW, my water: GH 3-5, KH 0.5-3.
 
Sorry forgot to say that macro is from the EI guide but micro is double the dose recomended by aqaurium plant food uk (so a larger dose than the EI guide recommends)
 
Hi
I would personally stop dosing fertilizer's for a least a week!
I think you have ample fertilizers in your water column....Co2 is actually a fertilizer!
Micro could be the problem...you could stop dosing that and see what happens in a few weeks!
Cheers
hoggie.
 
Stunting is almost always co2 related. My Rotalla Bonsai stunted about 6 weeks back, i was pretty certain it was co2 related but thought id try a few things out to test. The first thing that will trick a lot of people to look elsewhere is the plant was dead centre in what i considered the best area for co2, micro bubbles all aound and the stunted plants even pearled. Tried ferts, flow and was increasing light anyway for another plant... nothing happened, stunted they remained.
Had a good trim, increased co2, reduced ferts to the normal level and sure enough away it went again.

As Clive would say, structural issues are nearly always co2 issues!

The weirdest part is the plant has now stopped being Bonsai and is growing like normal rotalla.... no idea why, ill post some pics when i get home. Anyone know if Bonsai is a cultivar and has reverted to normal rotalla after stress?
 
Hi Ian
Rotala sp Bonsai is pig if you don't have ample light and decent Co2!
Some scapers just can get it to transform to submerged or even keep it healthy for long periods of time after that!
I have a little experiment going on using Liquid Carbon on this little bugger of a plant!
Rotala sp rotundifiola is like a weed if you give it just water changes and no fertilizers in hard water areas!
Cheers
hoggie
 
Iain Sutherland said:
Anyone know if Bonsai is a cultivar and has reverted to normal rotalla after stress
Click to expand...
I have it too, not the stunning but Rotala (indica) Bonsai and also wondered what's so bonsai about it. They nursery states it grows 15 to 20 cm without elaborating on any special treatment or parameters. Mine shoots with ease over 30cm into emersed growth. Same goes for the Rotala marcandra mini type, same specs 15 to 20 cm but even grows larger and easily goes over 40 cm if you let it go. I guess trimming is the trick to keep 'm bonsai or mini.. :) Probaly only a marketing yell. ;)

The stunning can next to a definciency also be caused by a form of root damage. This can be mechanical damage or something in the soil like a root touching a roottab and gets to much of it. Not yet seen it with aquatic forms but seen it happen to terrestrial plants. curling their leaves sideways and show stunning top growth when damaged or over feeded. :)
 
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Yes - Rotala indica 'bonzai' is a cultivar/variety or whatever.......and therefore likely to be capable of "switch-back" to original form.
I have grown numerous groups of this plant in scapes and in "pre-tests" before releasing it on market - so I think I can say I know it very well, by now. I have not yet seen it go back to original, though.
I have grown plants with same name from different sources, while pre-testing......and there seem to be different "strains" of it - not all as compact growing, as one would expect ( and some, not IT at all !!)
All this said, I must add, that the influence of environment (= light, water, ferts etc.etc.) will enevitably affect growth and appearance of the plant.
- and sorry for going along with the off topic from OP, by the way ..........
 
Hi
I think the key is don't over stress any plants when you try to get them to transform to submerged growth!
They need weeks to acclimatise under water.....some do it easier than others like the Ludwigia species!
It can be a good learning curve to grow healthy slow growing plants like Crypts!
High maintenance for fast growth!
Lower maintenance for slow growth!
Cheers
hoggie
 
Here you go mick, can see the unhappy stunted growth and the new growth in the reverted form. This was from a nursery your familiar with ;)
I must have really treated it bad to make it revert :-/
it was intentionally treated badly though.....

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Im going to be trimming it this weekend so will be interested to see what it does once trimmed.
It has also started to 'pop up' else where in the tank from what must be runners under the substrate which is also a new one on me?? Have you seen this before?

Sorry to OP for going off on a tangent :)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Sorry Iain
But I think that's not reverting back to the land form...in my estimation!
I have this plant growing emersed...it doesn't resemble that which you mention!
Although you may a different strain as Mick .D stated!
Looks as though its struggling for light?
It as long stems and elongated leaves...a sure sign of a lack of light or mechanical damage!
Or some other problem!
Cheers
hoggie
 
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Im none the wiser hoggie.
i didnt mean it was reverting to land form, which is pretty similar to the immersed form, i am thinking it has reverted to pre cultivar form. As i mentioned i was stressing the plants with 2 lights running over the tank with something in the region off 150-200PAR and experimenting with a few things and then returned the tank to normal, some grew back in the cultivar form you can see and some more like rotundifolia with elongated leaves and narrow stem.

Im curious what Mick thinks as it seems odd that the same plant, from one pot, from the same nursery, some changed form and others continue its known cultivated form...? That and odd its popping up elsewhere from what seems to be runners under the substrate which ive havent seen in stem plants before?
 
Iain Sutherland said:
Also it seems to revert to a rotundifolia form rather than indica which im assuming by its new name its a cultivar of which seems strange...?
Click to expand...
Personally, I would not be able to - with any certainty - tell where the very variable specie Rot. rotundifolia ends and where Rot. indica begins....if I had them put on a line.
 
Iain - forgive me for asking; but is it at all possible, that the plant-group have been contaminated by some other plant-material....even tiny bits ???
Rotalas can grow short, horizontal shoots......but not long ones under soil/gravel.( Limnophila sessiliflora does grow long, horizontal shoots and there are other stems, doing it, too.)
If posible, check if the "strange ones" are actually physical connected to any "standard one". This would enevatibly state it's the same plant-material.
Please don't be offended - I'm not saying it can't be...... basically all varieties are more or less prone to "switch back" to original specie. Part of my job is to exclude those variations, that are too willing to go back ( ex. several Rot. macr. varieties) ...... but this one is really very stable.
 
Mick.Dk said:
Personally, I would not be able to - with any certainty - tell where the very variable specie Rot. rotundifolia ends and where Rot. indica begins....if I had them put on a line.
Click to expand...
Mick how are those Rotalas propageted in the nurseries?. Are they grown from cuttings from a motherplant if they are on rockwoll? I got them invitro and they where so small i thought those are probably from seeds. But i actualy have no idea..

I know that mother plants can get over stressed and need to be replaced after a certain periode. Because the quality of the offspring gradualy declines over time especialy when a cutting becomes a new motherplant than eventualy you get a bad gene pool . And also the hygiene is very important with growing sprouts from a motherplant. An over stressed motherplant, bad gene pool and or bad hygiene in the early days of a sprout can cause diseases, deformities and even mutations.

But have no idea how rotala's are propageted.. My best guess is Motherplants when seeing the picture above.. :)
 
Mick.Dk said:
Iain - forgive me for asking; but is it at all possible, that the plant-group have been contaminated by some other plant-material....even tiny bits ???
Click to expand...
I dont see how it could have been contaminated, this tank was planted all from in vitro in one go and i havent had any other rotalla's for years aside indica in the shrimp tank which is in another room and not been trimmed in forever.

Mick.Dk said:
If posible, check if the "strange ones" are actually physical connected to any "standard one". This would enevatibly state it's the same plant-material.
Click to expand...
sure thing Mick, like i said i will be trimming and thinning this week so when i pull them out ill see and get some images.

Mick.Dk said:
Please don't be offended - I'm not saying it can't be
Click to expand...
not at all, im curious how this change has come about, will be equally as interested to see if its all joined up. Ill also investigate the new pop ups and see if they are on runners, which i assumed they are but not visible above the surface...

watch this space.
 
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