Stus Rio 125 re-plant journal

Stu Worrall

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cheers beeky. I hadnt thought about moving it the other way so will give it a go. Ive got some java narrow fern spare so im going to attach it to the wood. anyone got any advice on attaching java to wood thats already in the tank? Cant realy get cotton around the bits I want to secure it to
 

YzemaN

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Try with needle and thread. Worked for me, anyway. Bits of stone or lead strips can also hold it down for a few weeks until it gets a hold. It doesn't take mush to hold them down.
Gorgeous looking tank btw. I really like the rocks. Maybe you could try to take the three largest pieces on the right and move them closer together and plant some Anubias or P. helferi between them?
 

Stu Worrall

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stuworrall said:
a look back at day 1

img37151024gy7.jpg


Heres an update of the tank at day 7 (today)


Day 14





Ive added some java narrow fern and another fern which ive forgotten the name of to the redmoor to fill it in a bit. They been attached to small round slate pebbles and placed in strategic locations. The HC is growing but the flow of water from the spraybar keeps blowing it off the ground! not sure what I can do about that as its not wise to reduce the flow is it?

unfortunately the algae has set in so im open to any pointers :(





Ive been removing the algae with a toothbrush and there is one "test" amano shrimp in the tank at the moment.

Current dosing is 5ml TPN+ and 5ml easycarbo per day and ive been doing 50% water changes every 2-3 days due to the new Amazonia. Lighting is now 4 x 18w for 9 hours (I took the t5 36w out as it was a pain in the hood as it didnt fit). drop checker is lime green and bps around 3-4.

Should I be upping the TPN+ to combat the algae?
 

ceg4048

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Hi,
You may want to consider increasing the injection rate and repositioning the diffuser. Try moving it under the spraybar so that it gets carried by the spraybar effluent and is distributed to the moss more quickly.

Cheers,
 

Stu Worrall

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ceg4048 said:
Hi,
You may want to consider increasing the injection rate and repositioning the diffuser. Try moving it under the spraybar so that it gets carried by the spraybar effluent and is distributed to the moss more quickly.

Cheers,
cheers clive. the diffuser bubbles do get dragged into the current off the spraybar but I'll move it over so its fully caught and bump the co2 up a bit. co2 is on 24/7 by the way as I haven't got a solenoid on this tank yet. (thanks to a kindly dave spencer for the co2 stuff :D )

by the way, ive not seen much pearling yet
 

Stu Worrall

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already done LD, will see how it goes..

Forgot to say the old fonatllus I had in my spare tank is now starting to grow. Its been sat in the mesh from aquaticmagic since about 2006 with no lights on but filter running so it shows how resilient it is

img404511024lm9.jpg
 

ceg4048

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stuworrall said:
by the way, ive not seen much pearling yet
Hi Stu,
Yes, well that's because pearling is caused by high rate of oxygen production. High rate of oxygen production is a result of high rate of carbon fixation plus high rate of hydrolysis of H2O (removal of H from H2O). High rate of carbon fixation can only occur if there is high quantity of carbon. Clearly then, you can only have high quantity of carbon if you are actually adding high quantity of CO2 or high quantity of Excel or both. When there is high quantity of carbon available the plant will be strengthened, will resist the attacks of the hair algae and will produce excess oxygen as a "waste product" as it consumes the carbon. Oxygen bubbles will then replace the hair in your photos #5 and #6.

Cheers,
 

Stu Worrall

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the plants must be sucking it up big time then. Ive moved the diffuser under the spraybar now and also had a look at your thread where you showed your spraybar over nearly the full length of the tank. Im getting more tubing to do this so it should distribute the nutrients better.

Can I up the easycarbo as well from 5ml or just stick with increasing the bps steadily?
 

beeky

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People double dose (and even triple dose in some cases) without any ill effects, although there are concerns that vallis can melt in such conditions.
 

aaronnorth

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Clearly then, you can only have high quantity of carbon if you are actually adding high quantity of CO2 or high quantity of Excel or both

i thought that you would only be able to get pearling from CO2, not just C, as i though they took in CO2, then respired the O2?

sorry for the hi jack, and the tank is looking fab, great pics aswell.
 

ceg4048

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Well, it may be possible but I know of no way to add just C for plant assimilation. CO2 gas diffuses through the stomata directly, Excel/Easycarbo is converted to CO2 after diffusing through the leaf, the Carbo plus carbon block unit produces CO2 via electrolysis and the CO3 or HCO3 (measured as water's KH) can be processed into CO2 by many species. Which method of adding only C only are you referring to mate?

Cheers,
 

aaronnorth

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by adding excel, i just thought that it was carbon, and nothing else? going by the quote below, you are saying that adding just excel will promote pearling? if excel is only carbon and no oxygen, then the plants wont be able to pearl will they? Or do they get the oxygen from the hydrolis of H2O?

Hpoe you understand, i dont know how to explain it :rolleyes:

Hi Stu,
Yes, well that's because pearling is caused by high rate of oxygen production. High rate of oxygen production is a result of high rate of carbon fixation plus high rate of hydrolysis of H2O (removal of H from H2O). High rate of carbon fixation can only occur if there is high quantity of carbon. Clearly then, you can only have high quantity of carbon if you are actually adding high quantity of CO2 or high quantity of Excel or both. When there is high quantity of carbon available the plant will be strengthened, will resist the attacks of the hair algae and will produce excess oxygen as a "waste product" as it consumes the carbon. Oxygen bubbles will then replace the hair in your photos #5 and #6.

Cheers,
 

ceg4048

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Aaron,
If Excel/Easycarbo was only pure carbon then we wouldn't need to spend £20 per liter. If it was only carbon it wouldn't be so incredibly toxic to us. We would just need to throw some charcoal from the fireplace into the water.

The chemical process of photosynthesis and the physical construction of the reaction chambers, as well as the transport mechanisms (Rubisco enzyme) specifically requires Carbon in the form of CO2. Plants use the Calvin Cycle to "Fix", or assimilate Carbon from CO2. The O2 is simply a waste product of that cycle. Some of this O2 is used in "glycolysis" which is the process in which cells respire and consume energy.

Excel/Easycarbo is a complex Carbon compound constructed of a molecular polygon which includes Glutaraldehyde (C5H8O2) as it's foundation. Many higher plants have the ability, through other chemical reactions to break down this complex molecule into CO2 which is then transported to enter the Calvin Cycle. Some plants, like Riccia, and most algae do not have the facility or the sequence of required sophisticated chemical reactions to perform this breakdown and so the Glutaraldehyde becomes toxic. It's therefore a gross oversimplification to describe Excel/Easycarbo as "just Carbon and nothing else". Far from it mate.

Cheers,
 

Stu Worrall

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i think i get most of that although im not a chemist :) Ive now moved the diffuser to under the intake as dave spencer suggested when he was around the other week. the tank is now a lot less cloudy as the bubbles seem to be getting nicely smashed inside the filter. ive upped the co2 as well so will see how the algae goes.

still dosing 5ml TPN+ and 5ml easycarbo.
 

aaronnorth

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ceg4048 said:
Aaron,
If Excel/Easycarbo was only pure carbon then we wouldn't need to spend £20 per liter. If it was only carbon it wouldn't be so incredibly toxic to us. We would just need to throw some charcoal from the fireplace into the water.

The chemical process of photosynthesis and the physical construction of the reaction chambers, as well as the transport mechanisms (Rubisco enzyme) specifically requires Carbon in the form of CO2. Plants use the Calvin Cycle to "Fix", or assimilate Carbon from CO2. The O2 is simply a waste product of that cycle. Some of this O2 is used in "glycolysis" which is the process in which cells respire and consume energy.

Excel/Easycarbo is a complex Carbon compound constructed of a molecular polygon which includes Glutaraldehyde (C5H8O2) as it's foundation. Many higher plants have the ability, through other chemical reactions to break down this complex molecule into CO2 which is then transported to enter the Calvin Cycle. Some plants, like Riccia, and most algae do not have the facility or the sequence of required sophisticated chemical reactions to perform this breakdown and so the Glutaraldehyde becomes toxic. It's therefore a gross oversimplification to describe Excel/Easycarbo as "just Carbon and nothing else". Far from it mate.

Cheers,

Thanks, i get the basic process of it, i am sure the scientific part will follow :lol:
 

Stu Worrall

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not a great day :( Ive bumped up the co2 and its going in at a rate of knots but I found one of the two amani shrimps deed tonight. I did also find a shedded skin yesterday so not sure if its this one thats died.

On a good front I won a 4 x T5 24w Luminaire for £52 inc delivery on ebay this week so that should be here soon. Not putting it on though until i sort out the algae then get a plan for increasing the light for the HC.

im still on 5ml of tpn+ and easy carbo.

is it worth turning off one of my lights to help with getting rid of the algae?
 

ceg4048

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Hi Stu,
Yes, lowering light is always a good idea when fighting algae. This is because light is one of the fundamental causes of algae. I'll repeat that HC, glosso and all the other carpet plants are not necessarily high light plants, they are high CO2 plants. Given the proper levels of CO2, these plants simply grow faster with high lighting, but they really do not "need" massive lighting. Generally, if you have enough light to grow algae then you probably have enough to grow HC. For example, has it registered in your mind yet that the moss, which is much closer to the light has more algal growth than some of the carpet plants? I would estimate roughly that the light energy being received at the surface of the Fissidens leaf location is about 10X higher than at the substrate level where the P. helferi is. That means the Fissidens needs 10X as much CO2 (roughly speaking.)

100 watts T5 with reflectors is a lot of light for a 30 gallon tank. Your CO2 and or flow distribution will need to be flawless to avoid trouble. So really, lighting, in a way, is the root of all evil. High lighting drives the plants to grow faster but if the nutrients and CO2 levels cannot support that growth rate then the the plants stumble, leaving them vulnerable to algal attacks.

If it is indeed determined that the higher injection rate is negatively impacting the shrimp then the only alternatives will be to have lower lighting, and/or have higher flow, and/or to use more Excel. Lower lighting lowers the CO2 uptake demand. Higher flow increases the CO2 distribution and of course, higher Excel dosing increases the available CO2 without raising the water column CO2 levels.

Cheers,
 
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