• You are viewing the forum as a Guest, please login (you can use your Facebook, Twitter, Google or Microsoft account to login) or register using this link: Log in or Sign Up
  • You can now follow UKAPS on Instagram.

Substrate maintenance!

LMuhlen

Member
Joined
23 Mar 2022
Messages
63
Location
Brazil
Some of the 2hr aquarist articles suggest regularly performing maintenance on aquasoils, blowing particulate matter out with a turkey baster during water changes.

I think this is directly related to wanting to keep microbiological growth under control with all the organics present. At least, with the relatively large grains, it is easy to get some of this excess removed.
 

_Maq_

Member
Joined
23 Jun 2022
Messages
621
Location
Czech Republic
Some of the 2hr aquarist articles suggest regularly performing maintenance on aquasoils, blowing particulate matter out with a turkey baster during water changes.
I think this is directly related to wanting to keep microbiological growth under control with all the organics present. At least, with the relatively large grains, it is easy to get some of this excess removed.
  • The life cycle of most heterotrophic bacteria counts 2 to 8 hours.
  • You obviously do not refer to dissolved organics.
 

macek.g

Member
Joined
28 Dec 2008
Messages
91
Location
Livingston
Hi @MAQ I would like to hear from you
on the K-Ca-Mg relationship
Well, for years I have been visiting various forums around the world and these opinions are different
I also meet those where the main problem is Mg and it is best when we keep it low (or even very low) in relation to K (example equailibrium)
What is the role of Mg in "submerged plants" in relation to K according to you?
Of course, I take into account the soil substrate - neutral gravel
maybe some research?

Overall, I was intrigued by your observation here:

Can manganese in aquatic plants be mobile? (I repeat in aquatic plants)
 

_Maq_

Member
Joined
23 Jun 2022
Messages
621
Location
Czech Republic
Hi @MAQ I would like to hear from you
on the K-Ca-Mg relationship
Well, for years I have been visiting various forums around the world and these opinions are different
I also meet those where the main problem is Mg and it is best when we keep it low (or even very low) in relation to K (example equailibrium)
What is the role of Mg in "submerged plants" in relation to K according to you?
Of course, I take into account the soil substrate - neutral gravel
maybe some research?

Overall, I was intrigued by your observation here:

Can manganese in aquatic plants be mobile? (I repeat in aquatic plants)
Submerged plants do not form any separate group among higher plants. Their traits can be subsumed among the term 'adaptation'. I mean, the physiology is basically the same. Differences are minor; par example, submerged plants invest less in the supporting tissues, do not need regulatory mechanisms to avoid water loss through transpiration, they build aerenchyma to transport gasses to the roots, and so on. The enzymes, chlorophyll, amino acids, sugars, etc. etc. are the same.
So, manganese is just as immobile as within terrestrial plants. The role of magnesium is also the same; predominant part of magnesium is used for building chlorophyll.
I've arrived at certain ratio among K, Mg & Ca which works well. At the same time, plants are plastic creatures and can cope with wide deviations from this ratio. Yet from time to time distortions appear. I'm still researching this issue, but so far, my ratio seems to never fail. That's why I dared to announce it publicly.
 

_Maq_

Member
Joined
23 Jun 2022
Messages
621
Location
Czech Republic
. . . and?
Some of the 2hr aquarist articles suggest regularly performing maintenance on aquasoils, blowing particulate matter out with a turkey baster during water changes.
I think this is directly related to wanting to keep microbiological growth under control with all the organics present. At least, with the relatively large grains, it is easy to get some of this excess removed.
How often do you do water change? Once a week? Within a few days, bacteria can multiply many many times.
 

erwin123

Member
Joined
4 Mar 2021
Messages
1,069
Location
Singapore
Submerged plants do not form any separate group among higher plants. Their traits can be subsumed among the term 'adaptation'. I mean, the physiology is basically the same. Differences are minor; par example, submerged plants invest less in the supporting tissues, do not need regulatory mechanisms to avoid water loss through transpiration, they build aerenchyma to transport gasses to the roots, and so on. The enzymes, chlorophyll, amino acids, sugars, etc. etc. are the same.
So, manganese is just as immobile as within terrestrial plants. The role of magnesium is also the same; predominant part of magnesium is used for building chlorophyll.
I've arrived at certain ratio among K, Mg & Ca which works well. At the same time, plants are plastic creatures and can cope with wide deviations from this ratio. Yet from time to time distortions appear. I'm still researching this issue, but so far, my ratio seems to never fail. That's why I dared to announce it publicly.
I hope you will be able to conduct your experiments on Ammannia Pedicatella 'Golden' as its supposed to have different requirements where K is concerned - if you are able to grow it with high or even 'normal' levels of K dosing simply by adjusting the Ca ratio, that would be valuable information for many hobbyists. Plantnoobdude is growing it successfully in low TDS RO/DI (40+ TDS) water while mine are struggling a bit in tapwater (120+TDS Gh6).
 

_Maq_

Member
Joined
23 Jun 2022
Messages
621
Location
Czech Republic
I hope you will be able to conduct your experiments on Ammannia Pedicatella 'Golden' as its supposed to have different requirements where K is concerned
I do have it, small in-vitro plantlets, in all Portugals. As yet, they live and grow in all of them. In a few months, I'll learn more.
In spring, I tested Ammannia crassicaulis. Have a look here: Latest insights on Calcium . Key findings: A. crassicaulis can prosper in wide range of pH, at least 6 to 8, no defects with my ratio K:Mg:Ca = 1:3:10 by weight. It seems it does not like very low-mineralized water. It can uptake un-chelated micronutrients while pH=8.
 

_Maq_

Member
Joined
23 Jun 2022
Messages
621
Location
Czech Republic
As a novice to this forum I'm surprised that most of you use commercial 'active' or 'nutrient-rich' substrates.
My thesis: All those commercial substrates are no better than silica sand. The success or failure depends on other variables, and commercial substrates do not render any real advantage.
You are sincerely welcome to prove me wrong. Suggest a species which - in your opinion - I cannot keep in good condition in silica sand (while you can, thanks to a better substrate).
I imagine I'll acquire the suggested species and plant it in one (or more) of my tanks. I'll inform you on the result.
So, any suggestions? 😁
 

LondonDragon

Administrator
UKAPS Team
Joined
21 Feb 2008
Messages
12,015
Location
London
As a novice to this forum I'm surprised that most of you use commercial 'active' or 'nutrient-rich' substrates.
I kept a tank for 7-8 years with plain gravel and grew most plants including various carpeting plants without any issues!
Using a commercial soil just means that after 2-3 years it will turn to mud, and you will need to redo it all again LOL
 

sparkyweasel

Member
Joined
30 Jun 2011
Messages
2,560
As a novice to this forum I'm surprised that most of you use commercial 'active' or 'nutrient-rich' substrates.
Do we?
You could post a poll to ask people what they use.

I don't remember any-one who uses active substrate claiming that they grow plants that users of inert substrates cannot grow. Although the manufacturers make some bold claims. :)
 

Andy Pierce

Member
Joined
27 Nov 2020
Messages
316
Location
Cambridge, UK
I use aquasoil because I find the texture convenient and I'm pleasantly surprised by how it hasn't all turned to mud after a couple of years so I like it as a physical support that doesn't pack in too densely. I do EI ferts and expect all the fertilisation to come through the water column (I don't ever change out the aquasoil).
 

GreggZ

Member
Joined
4 Mar 2022
Messages
301
Location
Novi, MI 48374
As a novice to this forum I'm surprised that most of you use commercial 'active' or 'nutrient-rich' substrates.
My thesis: All those commercial substrates are no better than silica sand. The success or failure depends on other variables, and commercial substrates do not render any real advantage.
You are sincerely welcome to prove me wrong. Suggest a species which - in your opinion - I cannot keep in good condition in silica sand (while you can, thanks to a better substrate).
I imagine I'll acquire the suggested species and plant it in one (or more) of my tanks. I'll inform you on the result.
So, any suggestions? 😁
All in all I have to agree. I have kept high tech tanks in both Black Diamond Blasting Sand and Landen Aqua Soil. You can have a great tank with either. The basics remain the same. The right light, CO2, fertilization, maintenance, horticulture and you can do equally well with either.

Here is my tank with inert BDBS.

2-9-2020.jpg


And here is a year later with Landen.

20210313_173105.jpg
 
Last edited:

macek.g

Member
Joined
28 Dec 2008
Messages
91
Location
Livingston
As a novice to this forum I'm surprised that most of you use commercial 'active' or 'nutrient-rich' substrates.
My thesis: All those commercial substrates are no better than silica sand. The success or failure depends on other variables, and commercial substrates do not render any real advantage.
You are sincerely welcome to prove me wrong. Suggest a species which - in your opinion - I cannot keep in good condition in silica sand (while you can, thanks to a better substrate).
I imagine I'll acquire the suggested species and plant it in one (or more) of my tanks. I'll inform you on the result.
So, any suggestions? 😁
I will refer to it later

And to this, because I have a different view, "deeper analysis";)
 

jaypeecee

Member
Joined
21 Jan 2015
Messages
2,902
Location
Bracknell
As a novice to this forum I'm surprised that most of you use commercial 'active' or 'nutrient-rich' substrates.
My thesis: All those commercial substrates are no better than silica sand.
Hi @_Maq_

My current tank substrate is inert silica sand but I only have Java Ferns in this tank, which get all their nutrients from the water column. In previous tanks, I've always been concerned about nutrients from the substrate leaching into the water column where they could potentially encourage algae/Cyano growth.

JPC
 

_Maq_

Member
Joined
23 Jun 2022
Messages
621
Location
Czech Republic
I've always been concerned about nutrients from the substrate leaching into the water column where they could potentially encourage algae/Cyano growth.
That sounds logical, and there are various papers on ecology which suggest it works like that in natural habitats.
In tanks, it seems to be different. Consider what huge amounts of fertilizers many hobbyists pour in their tanks, incl. chelated (!) micronutrients, and still hardly any algae appear. It's a fact for which I've got no explanation. It's bewildering.
On the other hand, many (incl. myself) would agree that organic pollutants support algae.
 

ElleDee

Member
Joined
12 Mar 2022
Messages
117
Location
Southeastern US
That sounds logical, and there are various papers on ecology which suggest it works like that in natural habitats.
In tanks, it seems to be different. Consider what huge amounts of fertilizers many hobbyists pour in their tanks, incl. chelated (!) micronutrients, and still hardly any algae appear. It's a fact for which I've got no explanation. It's bewildering.
On the other hand, many (incl. myself) would agree that organic pollutants support algae.
My background is in horticulture and generally speaking the conditions a plant grows in its natural environment is a starting point for tips on its cultivation, not the final word. This is especially true when we are talking about a growing environment as contrived as an aquarium. Supplementing plant nutrition is one of the most basic ways to enhance plant growth there is and the way you determine how much is optimal vs. too much is through experimentation, not ecological studies.
 
Top