• You are viewing the forum as a Guest, please login (you can use your Facebook, Twitter, Google or Microsoft account to login) or register using this link: Log in or Sign Up

Surface scum & is increased flow too strong for a Betta?

Personally I'm always going to want the plants grown in before I add any fish, and then I'm going to add the fish fairly slowly. It might not be strictly, but it has a very low chance of failure (at least in terms of water quality issues).
Hi @dw1305

I have 'cycled' tanks many times using the ammonium chloride and Tetra SafeStart approach. Keeping a close watch on ammonia, nitrite and nitrate with good quality test kits is key to success. I have never had any casualties from adopting this approach. But, I used to have no end of problems with trying to raise healthy plants - even Frogbit. If I'd waited until I felt confident in growing healthy aquatic plants, I'd only just be starting to keep fish.

I used to be a Moderator on A N Other forum. They all adopted the ammonia and bottled bacteria approach. You should have seen some of the so-called plants in their tanks. Or, maybe not!

JPC
 
Using Tetra SafeStart, I have cycled a tank in just six days. After that, the plants and a few fish can be added.
Tetra claim you can fully stock the tank on day one, and I have done that in the past, several times, with no problems.
It's a long time since I've wanted or needed a tank up and running in a hurry so I haven't done it for a while.
 
I noticed there was a fair bit of surface scum on the water, is this bad?
Hi @laurenb252

It is not at all unusual to develop a surface scum on the water. In fact, it is to be expected. It is likely to be a problem as it prevents an exchange of oxygen and carbon dioxide at the water surface. A surface skimmer is normally effective as others have indicated. I suspect that the Eheim skim 350 may be the best choice in a small tank. I use one in a 30 litre cube. But, many UKAPS members (including myself) have found that it has a design flaw. It is not effective in preventing small fish and/or shrimp from being sucked into it. Many of us have found that this needn't be a showstopper. Please take a look at:


Otherwise, it does a good job and isn't too difficult to clean.

JPC
 
Hi @laurenb252

It is not at all unusual to develop a surface scum on the water. In fact, it is to be expected. It is likely to be a problem as it prevents an exchange of oxygen and carbon dioxide at the water surface. A surface skimmer is normally effective as others have indicated. I suspect that the Eheim skim 350 may be the best choice in a small tank. I use one in a 30 litre cube. But, many UKAPS members (including myself) have found that it has a design flaw. It is not effective in preventing small fish and/or shrimp from being sucked into it. Many of us have found that this needn't be a showstopper. Please take a look at:


Otherwise, it does a good job and isn't too difficult to clean.

JPC
Hi @jaypeecee,

Thanks for sending that across, I’ll take a look. I checked the tank this evening and the surface scum I described has already cleared up significantly after bringing the filter closer to the surface of the water.

The tank seems to be halfway through the cycling process at the moment, yesterday the nitrite levels spiked so I should start to see some nitrate once that goes down to 0. I’m just going to keep testing thoroughly, get some plants & CO2 in once it’s cycled, and monitor everything for a while before getting the Betta. Hopefully that way I should avoid any problems!
 
Tetra claim you can fully stock the tank on day one, and I have done that in the past, several times, with no problems.
Yes, I've seen people who would just put some filter media (and a bit of water) from an existing tank into the new filter and new tank and stock it right away without problems.

If I had to set up a new tank tomorrow I would probably do the same - and plant heavily right away.

Cheers,
Michael
 
I also had an issue with surface film in my 16 litre tank. there was really no space for a traditional surface skimmer so I installed a usb pump instead. Agitation of the water surface by the pump (without any filtration) was sufficient to make the film disappear. (Same principle as having a skimmer on the Lily pipe outlet - no filtration, just push the surface film down so that the regular filter can deal with it)

if you feel that the pump flow is too strong, you can put a piece of fine filter wool (I have experimented with a 100 micron polishing pad) , this will slow down the flow, and at the same time, the filter media can 'absorb' the surface film.

Here's the link to the discussion on the pump:
 
Hi all,
I have 'cycled' tanks many times using the ammonium chloride and Tetra SafeStart approach. Keeping a close watch on ammonia, nitrite and nitrate with good quality test kits is key to success. I have never had any casualties from adopting this approach.
If you aren't going to keep a planted tank then it is definitely <"a valid approach">. You are always reliant on microbial nitrification to deal with the ammonia produced by your livestock and your tank can only be "fish-safe" when levels of <"TAN" (NH3 / NH4+)> and nitrite (NO2-) remain permanently low.

I'm really interested <"in probability"> and for me the problem is that you have a number of areas of potential failure,
But, I used to have no end of problems with trying to raise healthy plants - even Frogbit. If I'd waited until I felt confident in growing healthy aquatic plants, I'd only just be starting to keep fish............You should have seen some of the so-called plants in their tanks.
I think that is a valid concern as well, and that "planted tank" could encompass everything from <"a single Dracaena">, in a pea graveled tank, to an <"absolute jungle">.
Yes, I've seen people who would just put some filter media (and a bit of water) from an existing tank into the new filter and new tank and stock it right away without problems.

If I had to set up a new tank tomorrow I would probably do the same - and plant heavily right away.
I think we have probably all done that at some point. Because of the issue with <"emersed plant production">, and the re-establishment period, I like a floating plant, it doesn't have to adapt and has access to aerial CO2.

cheers Darrel

 
Beats me as well why people get so riled up about this.... "cycled" or not, it's all the mistakes made afterwards that ruins the experience...
Hi @MichaelJ

It doesn't matter to me which approach people adopt. But, I always think it's only right to advise those new to the hobby that there's more than one way to crack a nut. Provide others with the information they need but let them decide how they wish to proceed.

I love your statement "it's all the mistakes made afterwards that ruins the experience...". Excellent! :clap:

JPC
 
After reading through the thread, and thinking of what adjustments new plants go through in general wouldnt it be wiser to add plants after the cycle? What affect, and stresses does planting into an ammonia rich environment straight away have on them?

The filter is being set up as the primary stage for nitrification. Once thats acheived the plants can be introduce to an environment thats more optimal for them.
 
Hi all,
what adjustments new plants go through in general wouldnt it be wiser to add plants after the cycle? What affect, and stresses does planting into an ammonia rich environment straight away have on them?
It depends on the plants a little bit, it is really back to the <"Orchids and tomatoes"> dichotomy.

High ammonia levels <"definitely damage Anubias barteri"> (and most other Aroids I would guess). A "Tomato", and particularly a floating one like Water Hyacinth (Eichornia crassipes), would just hoover up <"as much ammonia as you could throw at it">. The problem with high ammonia levels and submerged plants is that you will often <"get a lot of algae">.

@Cor has used the <"dark start method"> as a mechanism for cycling a tank, with an ammonia rich substrate, without developing algal problems.

If you don't have an ammonia rich substrate? Just don't add any ammonia <"and plant the tank">. After that change water and add fertilisers following your normal regime. Once the plants are grown in <"your tank is fish-safe">.
The filter is being set up as the primary stage for nitrification.
In a non-planted tank the filter is the <"be all and end all">, but that isn't really true in a planted tank.

This is because there isn't any "plant only" biofiltration <"it is always synergistic">*, <"plant / microbe biofiltration">.

cheers Darrel

*Rehman, K., Ijaz, A., Arslan, M. and Afzal, M., (2019). "Floating treatment wetlands as biological buoyant filters for wastewater reclamation". International journal of phytoremediation, 21(13), pp.1273-1289.
 
Last edited:
Back
Top