Taking a sump. Back in five minutes...

Geoffrey Rea

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Surely it depends on how big your scape is.....and how many non existent fish you need to feed 🤷‍♂️:lol:
Well it’s only a hundred litres so eight is clearly an overdose.

On a more serious not where the jammy Dodgers edible when you found them or well dunked
Very much well dunked @Jayefc1
Pulverised apart from their jammy centre. I would rather a hobnob, maybe a rich tea biscuit, but these things are like Dennerle snow drops - they just expand in water.

Seriously though, this is honestly going to take longer to sort than the actual rescape 😂 You never see a Green Aqua video on how to rinse Jammy Dodgers out of the roots of your Pinnatifida do ya? Where’s all the handy tips and tricks on how to deal with these sorts of scenarios? :rolleyes:

Haven’t even got around to the sump yet.
 

Geoffrey Rea

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Not just a quick syphon out and water change then lol
Wife says you got any pics lol
Was definitely not @Jayefc1

What a faff. Didn’t take any photo’s Jay, actually pleased about that to be honest. Don’t want to relive that six hour ordeal ever again quite frankly 😂

Whilst we’re on the topic of mishaps on this tank... Mentioned to @Siege that one of the ONF’s got left on all night as well the other night. Wife says, “came down at 5am and one of your tank lights was on. Switched it off because didn’t think you would want it on for that long”. Timer got knocked off and no one noticed - sixteen hour lighting period!!!!

It will be a miracle if this scape makes it to one month. But if it does no one else has any excuses. If you can bring a new scape back from being Jammy Dogered and an accidental sixteen hour light period in the same week, everything is recoverable 😂
 

Geoffrey Rea

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She lives!!

1591127008966.jpeg


It’s been a bit full on since the tank got Jammy Dogered and treated to an accidental sixteen hour photoperiod. Happy to say almost everything is getting back on track now, just the Ludwigia super red to turn around and it’s back to business as usual.
 

Geoffrey Rea

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A few photo’s of what tipping a load of biscuits into a tank can do to a new setup. These are from the week after the incident/buscuitgate scandal:

1592628576242.jpeg


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1592628665492.jpeg


1592628689915.jpeg


All the lower end of the stems had an array of algae, a collectoritis of algae throughout the tank and BBA and staghorn affecting epiphyte leaf edges and roots.

Always tell folks to persevere through problem patches so time to put that into practice myself.

Its pretty clear pruning this tank back would be the harbinger of death. To take the remaining plant resources to remove what is effectively a system wide problem is like peeing on a house fire, ain’t gonna work.

Tap TDS is reliably 450-500ppm here, which is fine on a healthy setup I’ve found, but not optimal for recovering the situation. Once things settled changed the water to 50% tap and 50% rain water. After adding dechlorinator, magnesium sulphate and potassium sulphate to the water change water, in tank TDS sat bang on 250ppm. Bit more reliable for nutrient uptake.

The existing stem growth is a write off, have to accept that, and one by one their leaves will jettison. Placed root tabs directly under these so they can grow themselves out of trouble. Perhaps a little counter intuitive, but have increased the light on the ONF’s from 50% to 75%. Co2 is spot on so increase is not a problem.

Within 24hrs new clean growth appeared. Clean as a whistle and continuing. When it gets significant enough, will cut the clean tops and remove the affected lower portions and replant the tops.

Pinnatifida: the awkward one. Saw a good post on here yesterday regarding this plant but can’t remember which thread. Best success I’ve had with it is with higher than normal K input per week, but restricted N in the water column (hence the root tabs under the stems to provide for the stems what the water column will not). So gone with this dosing schedule again. Little by little new leaves have begun to appear and all the old growth is shedding leaf by leaf.

Epiphites... There’s very little I can do at this stage to help them. Where possible I’ve tucked the Buce/Anubius roots into the substrate for additional access to nutrients. In my experience if you hassle these plants when they’re suffering you’re rewarded with failure. Better to improve the water column, keep it clean and stable, then wait it out.

Tank is being double dosed with glutaraldehyde and the valve to the trickle system in the sump is fully opened at night to ensure maximum agitation for gas exchange out of the tank.

Still not out of the woods but satisfied everything that is appropriate to do has been done, just need to sit and monitor. Will update at one month.
 

Wookii

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13 Nov 2019
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571
Location
Nottingham
A few photo’s of what tipping a load of biscuits into a tank can do to a new setup. These are from the week after the incident/buscuitgate scandal:

View attachment 150675

View attachment 150676

View attachment 150677

View attachment 150678

All the lower end of the stems had an array of algae, a collectoritis of algae throughout the tank and BBA and staghorn affecting epiphyte leaf edges and roots.

Always tell folks to persevere through problem patches so time to put that into practice myself.

Its pretty clear pruning this tank back would be the harbinger of death. To take the remaining plant resources to remove what is effectively a system wide problem is like peeing on a house fire, ain’t gonna work.

Tap TDS is reliably 450-500ppm here, which is fine on a healthy setup I’ve found, but not optimal for recovering the situation. Once things settled changed the water to 50% tap and 50% rain water. After adding dechlorinator, magnesium sulphate and potassium sulphate to the water change water, in tank TDS sat bang on 250ppm. Bit more reliable for nutrient uptake.

The existing stem growth is a write off, have to accept that, and one by one their leaves will jettison. Placed root tabs directly under these so they can grow themselves out of trouble. Perhaps a little counter intuitive, but have increased the light on the ONF’s from 50% to 75%. Co2 is spot on so increase is not a problem.

Within 24hrs new clean growth appeared. Clean as a whistle and continuing. When it gets significant enough, will cut the clean tops and remove the affected lower portions and replant the tops.

Pinnatifida: the awkward one. Saw a good post on here yesterday regarding this plant but can’t remember which thread. Best success I’ve had with it is with higher than normal K input per week, but restricted N in the water column (hence the root tabs under the stems to provide for the stems what the water column will not). So gone with this dosing schedule again. Little by little new leaves have begun to appear and all the old growth is shedding leaf by leaf.

Epiphites... There’s very little I can do at this stage to help them. Where possible I’ve tucked the Buce/Anubius roots into the substrate for additional access to nutrients. In my experience if you hassle these plants when they’re suffering you’re rewarded with failure. Better to improve the water column, keep it clean and stable, then wait it out.

Tank is being double dosed with glutaraldehyde and the valve to the trickle system in the sump is fully opened at night to ensure maximum agitation for gas exchange out of the tank.

Still not out of the woods but satisfied everything that is appropriate to do has been done, just need to sit and monitor. Will update at one month.
Wow, sorry to hear of your woes Geoff. Are all the issues related to ‘Biscuit-Gate’ or more the transition to tap water?

You mention a double dose of glut, but how much glut do you typically dose - just the bottle recommend amount or more?
 

Deano3

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8 Feb 2012
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Great explanating Geoffrey i have said the same as nick very helpful to us less experienced folks so thanks, i mist say i laughed soon as i seen the biscuitgate scandal you have to laugh though dont you, hopefully will all start to pull round mate defently sounds like heading in right direction. Keep us updated mate

Sent from my SM-G970F using Tapatalk
 

Geoffrey Rea

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27 May 2017
Messages
732
Location
Cambridgeshire
Wow, sorry to hear of your woes Geoff. Are all the issues related to ‘Biscuit-Gate’ or more the transition to tap water?
Hard tap water here is fine @Wookii run plenty of setups using the tap here:

1592644606753.jpeg


1592644881473.png


Even the first scape on this thread was run on tap for a while.

Will put myself out there though on this one and state, personally I’ve never had as clean and healthy growth as when I ran this tank on RO mixed with tap water to 120ppm TDS.

Tap here is high in calcium carbonate so adding a dash of tap to RO along with K and Mg to give a 3:2:1 Ca:K:Mg ratio worked a treat.

It worked out as 80% RO to 20% tap plus a dash of Epsom salt and potassium sulphate or chloride.

Is it worth messing around with RO though.... I hated it, was ruining the hobby for me.

However, given the situation and the amount of available rain water recently it would be silly not to temporarily take advantage of chasing those parameters again to help this setup recover using free rain water. Make no mistake, it will be going back on tap afterwards.

Have previously got stung by using rain water though, one of the worst outbreaks of cyanobacteria in a tank - took six months to get it out and the smell was atrocious.

As for biscuitgate pretty used to it. Had hot wheels cars, teddy bears, Cheerios etc put in the tanks over the last few years. Tank will recover but all that sodium and sugar dispersed everywhere was never going to end well.


You mention a double dose of glut, but how much glut do you typically dose - just the bottle recommend amount or more?
Standard recommended dose of 2% glutaraldehyde is 1ml per 50l. Double simply being 2ml per 50l.

Half life of Glutaraldehyde in freshwater is estimated to be 10-12 hours. If necessary to maintain a consistent concentration in your tank you can calculate what you would need to add every 12 hours until next water change, but it is rather a faff.

I just add before lights on everyday.


you have to laugh though dont you, hopefully will all start to pull round mate defently sounds like heading in right direction. Keep us updated mate //emoji.tapatalk-cdn.com/emoji106.png
Should be fine @Deano3 will just take a little TLC
 

Wookii

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13 Nov 2019
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Nottingham
Hard tap water here is fine @Wookii run plenty of setups using the tap here
Yeah, I was meaning more the transition for leaves grown in soft water, adapting to hard water. I have hard water too, and plants grow just fine.

I was just interested if transitioning from one to the other might cause any issues, as I will have to do that myself moving from hard water in my current tank, to RO water in my new larger tank.
 

Geoffrey Rea

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Messages
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Location
Cambridgeshire
Yeah, I was meaning more the transition for leaves grown in soft water, adapting to hard water.
Ah I see, my bad...


I was just interested if transitioning from one to the other might cause any issues, as I will have to do that myself moving from hard water in my current tank, to RO water in my new larger tank.
Personally not had any issues @Wookii
 

Geoffrey Rea

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Messages
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Location
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One month update...

1593016529817.jpeg


What a month. Didn’t envisage biscuitgate eclipsing what should have been a very easy startup.

Slowly clawing this tank back. Kept finding biscuit bits in the Pinnatifida roots on the rock on the right as recently as a few days ago. Really difficult to tease out/siphon. Got fed up and tore the lot out to get things straight, hence the bare millennium stone in the right mid-ground. Pinnatifida will colonise it again soon enough. Have removed the Fissidens in the foreground as it was attracting thread algae, but haven’t found any in the tank since, one down.

The BBA isn’t spreading now the stems are getting taller. Staghorn is all gone, so another down. Still letting the fresh tops grow a little more on the Ludwigia super red/Rotala green/Rotala H’ra before chopping and removing the ratty lower halves.

The Littorella uniflora is starting go grow through the MC, but overall the carpet has got away unscathed:

1593017419283.jpeg


Month two will be an all out eviction process for any remaining algae. It will either be BBA or Green Spot algae on the anubius and Buce that will be the last one standing.

The water was softened tail end of this month as a bump for the plants, but back on hard Cambridgeshire tap again now.
 

Tom Michael

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16 Nov 2014
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Such an informative thread that I some how missed- thanks for sharing Geoffrey.

I have been contemplating mixing my own hard two water with rainwater. Do you attribute a previous algae out break to this in the past?
 

Geoffrey Rea

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I have been contemplating mixing my own hard two water with rainwater. Do you attribute a previous algae out break to this in the past?
Not algae @Tom Michael but cyanobacteria. The rain barrel water apparently smelled according to my wife, but had a cold at the time and couldn’t smell much. It’s a pretty obvious smell if all your faculties are working. That rain barrel had no lid on though so silly really.

Probably stating the obvious but you need to aerate rain water that has been standing and watch out for ammonia. It’s usually not so bad if it’s rained recently but I still treat with prime for the full volume of water being changed.

PS as an aside, we use a dehumidifier to dry washing/keep conservatory dry in winter. Can use that water as a means to soften your tap as well.
 
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Tom Michael

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Not algae @Tom Michael but cyanobacteria. The rain barrel water apparently smelled according to my wife, but had a cold at the time and couldn’t smell much. It’s a pretty obvious smell if all your faculties are working. That rain barrel had no lid on though so silly really.

Probably stating the obvious but you need to aerate rain water that has been standing and watch out for ammonia. It’s usually not so bad if it’s rained recently but I still treat with prime for the full volume of water being changed.

PS as an aside, we use a dehumidifier to dry washing/keep conservatory dry in winter. Can use that water as a means to soften your tap as well.
That’s interesting thanks. I can grow most plants fine in hard water however I spend a lot of time in Japan using ADA system w soft water and this uses much less co2.

No space in house for RO so rainwater it will have to be, thanks for the info re airation
 

Geoffrey Rea

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The tide is turning:

1593626996490.jpeg


Few pockets of BBA to sort out but generally pleased with the bounce back.

Have temporarily banked the sand up to bury some of the roots on the Buces and Anubias to give them a bump.

Next maintenance session I’ll drain the tank and paint the rocks with glutaraldehyde to get them clear again. The remaining BBA on the lower reaches of the stems can just be cut off and then replant the healthy tops, job done. Just leaves some misting on the leaves of the epiphytes to do daily until it’s evicted then can crack on with some foreground details.
 
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