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Geoffrey Rea

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Not sure if that question is for @foxfish or myself @Costa

The main benefit of having the Co2 diffuser in front of the return pump is as the mist travels through the pump, up the pipe and out of the outflow more Co2 will dissolve into the water due to all the turbulent flow.

The remaining mist need not go all around the tank if the water is saturated to your desired ppm of Co2. A reactor dissolves all the Co2 by extending this turbulent period even longer.

So to answer your question, yes that additional flow and increased turnover from turning your return pumps up is gassing off Co2 to some degree. Whether you would want to do that is up to you and depends on several other factors.
 

Costa

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Not sure if that question is for @foxfish or myself @Costa

The main benefit of having the Co2 diffuser in front of the return pump is as the mist travels through the pump, up the pipe and out of the outflow more Co2 will dissolve into the water due to all the turbulent flow.

The remaining mist need not go all around the tank if the water is saturated to your desired ppm of Co2. A reactor dissolves all the Co2 by extending this turbulent period even longer.

So to answer your question, yes that additional flow and increased turnover from turning your return pumps up is gassing off Co2 to some degree. Whether you would want to do that is up to you and depends on several other factors.
Thank you for the reply, I've been injecting CO2 (5-6
bps) for a good 2 months through the return pump at high flow rates (~6000lph) and the drop checker was in the light blue, borderline green. Granted, it is a 800L tank, I've had far better success with the smaller tanks I've kept over the years.

I have now (last 5 days) switched to a bazooka placed right below the wave maker and also reduced the pump's flow rate to around 2,000LPH. At such slow flow rates the water returns into the sump very slowly and almost without any O2 bubbles and I *think* I'm getting some better growth, the drop checker is still light blue thought!
 
Last edited:

Geoffrey Rea

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No problem. @foxfish ’s method of concentrating all the Co2 mist by funnelling it into the pump where the prop will ‘chop’ the water up is an extremely effective way of gaining a considerable advantage. Sounds like the affect of higher turnover is cancelling it out through surface agitation and during the return process back to the sump.

The high turnover thing, in my humble opinion, is only a serious benefit at start up when plants are shedding and also when you load up with stock. The rest of the time manual removal is the best way of limiting the demand on your system as other means, rather than manual removal (like relying heavily on plant and sump filtration by increasing turn over), has an effect on other parameters we would rather remain efficient and stable.
 

Geoffrey Rea

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Just for a bit of perspective this is 4 x Kessil A160’s @ 100% through 2ft depth versus two ONF Flat One’s @ 35% through 1ft:

upload_2019-11-19_21-34-55.jpeg


Fully aware I’m being an utter child but it’s still making me giggle. Can’t even get a clear shot.

As for growth:

upload_2019-11-19_21-40-55.jpeg


When everything that got planted 48 hours ago is as tight growing as the H’ra in the foreground (that went in a week ago) can see this being a lot of fun.
 

Andrew Butler

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Yes you have to find the right size bottle ... reactor or needle wheel pump!
needle/pinwheel pumps of a decent quality don't really seem to exist at a sensible price though and from what I've seen tend to be lower powered and intended for skimmers.
Maybe a better way of me wording this is what pump would you suggest that could easily be used as a return pump with high enough power, flow control etc?
I've got the Jecod DCP-2500 after good experience with the brand with regard to return pumps.
 

Geoffrey Rea

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Bit of history @Andrew Butler and @Costa

upload_2019-11-20_9-52-16.jpeg


The Eheim Ecco in this picture was my fathers. If memory serves me correctly he bought it in 1999 when the Ecco series first came out. It has been running for at least 18 out of the last 20 years constantly and has never failed or dropped in performance. Thing is as good as silent when running. Gunther Eheim set the bar in my mind, so I feel somewhat disappointed when we’re all surprised something lasts longer than two years these days.

But yes, Jecod/Jebao dominate for DC pumps at a reasonable price and are so silent you can’t even tell if they’re running.
 

Andrew Butler

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Jecod/Jebao dominate for DC pumps at a reasonable price and are so silent you can’t even tell if they’re running
They took the marine world by storm a few years back when you got a real quality return pump which had adjustable flow, was more reliable and quieter than the £600+ return pumps (reason why D-D have now brought the rights in the UK)
 

foxfish

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Hi Andrew, needle wheel pumps tend to have less flow rather than power due to having a less efficient impeller for actually moving water.
They are easy to make as it is only the impeller that is different to a conventional pump, you can probably find a YouTube vid...
I haves used needle wheel pumps in the past, there is no doubt that they will produce a mass of micro bubbles but I would think they are better suited on a large tank where other methods might be more of a challenge.

Reactors can be very fickle and time consuming to set up just right, in-line reactors need high pressure to operate and need cleaning... a needle wheel pump is pretty much maintenance free.... but can be noisy!

I would say the worst thing is in fact noise, however this is not always an issue if say the pump is under 300mm of water, in a sump, under a tank with doors.

Many years ago it was popular to modify a power head impeller by just nipping the blades with a pair of pliers or drilling tiny holes in the blades. They could then be fed low pressure C02, all good fun but a bit ugly.
 

foxfish

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I have been using central heating pumps for 40 years, you need a conversion kit but once fitted the pumps should last for decades of continuous running.
Good points.... near silent and vibration free , completely silent from a few feet away, adjustable power and flow settings, easy to buy new or second hand.
Bad points ... heavy and high power consumption, I think 40w on low setting.
 

Andrew Butler

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you can probably find a YouTube vid...
I've seen a few where people adulterate impellors and either 3d print a new wheel or mess around with acrylic, not something I really want to do and as you say the flow isn't the same.
I'm having an aquarium built with a partitioned filtration section on the end ( @Geoffrey Rea I've had the nod to say it's coming today :clap: ) so just seeing what space I have in the filter section and quite if and how I can exercise your bottle method, one I listened to a very long time ago.
a needle wheel pump is pretty much maintenance free.... but can be noisy!
I think the newer generation are much quieter; the one on my Nyos skimmer a few years back was absolutely silent.
Jecod have something called a 'swirl impeller' on some models, quite how this effects things I don't know - I'll have to take a photo for your opinion
I have been using central heating pumps for 40 years
Something I've not heard here before.
 

foxfish

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I am sure there are new innovations but from my own experiences it is the actual smashing up of the bubbles that makes the noice rather that the pump motor. In effect the pump is spinning faster than the gas can be moved causing a sort of hissing sound.
I have one particular pump that must be 30 years old and still running today, I thought it had finally died a few months back but a basic service, a drop of oil and off it went again on its silence journey....
Edit you can see that actual pump working in the third post on my reactor thread ...link in my signature...
 

Andrew Butler

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‘express delivery’
Hmmmm not so sure about that
Hope it’s spot on and worth the wait
I'm quite confident it's not spot on from a picture I've been sent :banghead: looks like they've had a go at the weir cutout with a diamond saw this time, still it cant be worse than the holesaw with overscore attempt in the back to front attempt. I know they've not used CNC as I was expecting in the first place which I'm a little annoyed about. Anyway let's see if I can fix it with wet/dry then maybe some black paint - any suggestions?

IMG-20191120-WA0000.jpg
 

Tim Harrison

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Lovely fish, I like how you get flashes of red depending on how they catch the light.
 

Geoffrey Rea

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Lights being ramped up now plants are settling in. Transition from tap (400ppm + TDS) down to a controlled 120ppm with RO / tap mix.

Tried out Spotless Water.

upload_2019-11-24_9-28-0.jpeg


I hugely dislike the amount of waste water discarded in the making of RO in the colder months. At least in the summer it can be used in the garden. Rainwater due to the direction of the prevailing wind is probably not a good idea due to air pollution, but educating myself otherwise to see if this prejudice holds any reasonable truth.

Their system will be massively more efficient than any home RO unit but as a bonus I can quit the gym due to all the lifting.

upload_2019-11-24_9-25-5.jpeg
 

Geoffrey Rea

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Quick update. Ten days growth of the stems that were added:

upload_2019-11-29_16-19-4.jpeg


Time for a cut. Eriocaulon wasn’t particularly thriving anymore so taken it out.

First trim:

upload_2019-11-29_16-21-27.jpeg


upload_2019-11-29_16-21-54.jpeg


upload_2019-11-29_16-23-1.jpeg


Fresh growth should be fully adapted to under water life from here on out.

Lights were turned up to 90% on both ONF’s and TDS was bang on 120ppm in tank after water change this past week. Same drill this week but will be going up to 100% on both lights.
 
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