Technical stand question, please help!

Vonbruz

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10 Jun 2015
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Hi there. Thinking of getting the new Dennerle Scapers 70l rimless aquarium.

It is 50cm wide, 39cm deep (front to back) and 36cm high.

My only problem is I have a sideboard (very solid wood on metal stand), but the hardwood the aqarium would sit on has a depth of 38cm! 1cm short :confused:

The front and back of the sideboard has a metal frame which is very slightly raised from the wood, by maybe 5mm at the most.

So the front or rear 1cm of the aquarium would have to sit on the metal frame a few mm up from the other 38cm of the aquarium.

Would the foam mat the Dennerle comes with be enough to even this out, or is it too risky? My instinct says it would be fine, but i think this is equal measures wishful thinking and would appreciate some impartial advice. Thanks
 

alto

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My instinct says it would be fine,
My instinct votes otherwise ;)

I’d suggest running this by Dennerle ( likely any glass warranty would be voided) as they know the construction

Most aquarium mats I’ve seen fall far short of the ADA garden mat quality (density and thickness) so if you want to give this a try, I’d strongly recommend picking up a suitable ADA garden mat

You’d likely do better picking up a sturdy board (eg, I’ve used an older style Epicurean board to support a 45P with no warping etc over a few years) to “fill in” the space, then use the ADA Garden Mat to adjust for small unevenness

I’d likely just choose an aquarium that would fit the hardwood surface :cool:
 

Andrew Butler

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My instinct votes otherwise ;)
+1 I completely agree

@Vonbruz without seeing photos it's very hard to see options but I can picture the top view arrangement in my head.
If the wood is recessed inside the metal frame what is supporting the wood and how solid is this?
One option (that unfortunately involves additional cost) could be to use a piece of solid wood on top of the metal frame and give the sideboard a new top. Maybe you could speak with a carpenter/kitchen fitter and they would have or keep something from a worktop cut out left from a sink or hob that could be repurposed and used for this. I used to have loads and in the end machined them up into chopping boards to sell.

'Closed cell foam' is the product you are looking for which comes in various thickness and can have a self adhesive backing so you can stick it to the underside of the aquarium then carefully trim it to give it that floating look but I would still want the surface to be flat before using it.
 

Melll

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Hi there. Thinking of getting the new Dennerle Scapers 70l rimless aquarium.

It is 50cm wide, 39cm deep (front to back) and 36cm high.

My only problem is I have a sideboard (very solid wood on metal stand), but the hardwood the aqarium would sit on has a depth of 38cm! 1cm short :confused:

The front and back of the sideboard has a metal frame which is very slightly raised from the wood, by maybe 5mm at the most.

So the front or rear 1cm of the aquarium would have to sit on the metal frame a few mm up from the other 38cm of the aquarium.

Would the foam mat the Dennerle comes with be enough to even this out, or is it too risky? My instinct says it would be fine, but i think this is equal measures wishful thinking and would appreciate some impartial advice. Thanks

Morning, :) personally I would not use the sideboard/stand and certainly would not have the tank back higher than the front and overhanging. For some of my tanks large and small, I use kitchen cabinets without their legs, sitting on 38mm kitchen worktop, then another 38mm worktop on top of the cabinet, then a foam mat, then the tank.
 

Andrew Butler

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Hey @Melll - would you not use the sideboard given the simple adaptation I suggested, and if not why? (depending on the structure of the overall sideboard)
I'd say that using kitchen cabinets without the legs rely on having an exactly flat and level surface to begin with, not trying to shoot your method down, just my opinion that aquarium cabinets should have independently adjustable feet to take into account any deviation in level or bumps, especially with larger aquarium.
I would also point out the above method I suggest is not ideal for timber floors due to the direct load and would rely ideally on a concrete one.
 

Melll

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Morning Andrew :)
I am very lucking in so much that my floor is a concrete slab and level so it works for me :)

If the metal frame/stand is solid and if the new top overhung said stand, then there should be no reason for it not to be viable, just I personally would not do what Vonbruz was suggesting as in, having the back of the tank on a 5mm high metal upstand and having the tank overhang by 1cm at the front of the stand/sideboard.
 

Andrew Butler

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I personally would not do what Vonbruz was suggesting as in, having the back of the tank on a 5mm high metal upstand
completely agree with this part.
I am very lucking in so much that my floor is a concrete slab and level so it works for me
If it works for you then great; not many concrete floors are without small pits or bumps though.
 

Melll

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If it works for you then great; not many concrete floors are without small pits or bumps though.

Agreed but it is amazing how level you can get a floor using a dirty great big grinder and some blood sweat and tears :)

If I had tanks of 20 gallons or less and only a couple, then I would use/buy the cabinet that are usually supplied by the manufacturer, as in Fluval roma 90 on the Fluval Roma 90 cabinet, which I have and I use. However, having a 2 metre long Rena tank and a custom made 1.50 metre tank that did not come with cabinets/stands, using 3.6 metres of kitchen base cupboards without legs, standing on worktop and having the tanks on another worktop, works fine for me :)
 

Vonbruz

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Thanks everyone. I had a feeling the consensus might be a no :(

Good suggestion to run it by Dennerle, i might try that.

Juat to clarify, there would be no overhang. The cabinet is over 39cm deep, it's just the flat wooden top is 38cm, so 1cm of the tank would be on the slightly raised metal surround (i would say the front).

My floor is completely level and i can assure you the sideboard is stronger than almost any aquarium cabinet i've had in the past, so i'm not worried about the strength of the caninet, but i am worries about the load on the bottom glass panel of the tank due to that 1cm which would go onto the metal lip.

I'm just wondering if with the mat that Dennerle include it would be enough to counter this, or perhaps with the ADA mat that @alto suggested, as 38cm of the 39cm qould be on the flat surface, but the front curved section would juat have to go onto the raised part.

I've included some photos to help. I appreciate your feedback so please let me know. Thanks
20200720_214951.jpg


20200720_214936.jpg
20200720_214947.jpg
 

Vonbruz

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@Andrew Butler Sorry just to answer your question, the wood is recessed into the metal frame, but is supported by the metal frame underneath. It can easily handle the 70l aquarium as the metal frame is solid and to the ground. Hope that helps 👍

Like you and @alto suggested, i may have to buy some board to bridge the frame (from metal to metal, with maybe some mat underneath to fill the gap) and then a mat on top, followed by the aquarium.

I was trying to avoid this just for esthetics, and it is the perfect aquarium unfortunately, so a different tank would of course be easier, but i really like the depth of the scapers tank and the smaller dimensions overall are perfect. It's just my luck my unit is 1cm short.
 

dean

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I think you underestimate the strength of glass
In fish breeders set ups it’s common to just support large tanks just at each end

I’m talking 6ft long 2ft tall 2ft wide
Just sat on timber 2 inches wide just at the ends

This in comparison is a tiny tank
So for a simple solution get a piece of board (9-18mm thick mdf will do) cut to the same size as it’s base

Sit this on the cabinet and put the supplied mat onto It

If there’s a void under the board due to lips on the cabinet you can cut polystyrene to the same dimensions and place it under the board
This will fill the void

Your tank is now fully supported

I would calculate the total weight of the aquarium once complete and then put that weight on the cabinet (people are handy for this)
And see if it’s strong enough and doesn’t move


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alto

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I’m talking 6ft long 2ft tall 2ft wide
Just sat on timber 2 inches wide just at the ends
I’ve not seen unbraced, rimless tanks in these situations

It’s often not the glass that breaks, but the silicon join that gives in to torque/tension stress and releases :wideyed:
(imagine your rimless aquarium sans front pane of glass :oops: )

Re polystyrene sheet, check weight suitability re compression
 

Vonbruz

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10 Jun 2015
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I think you underestimate the strength of glass
In fish breeders set ups it’s common to just support large tanks just at each end

I’m talking 6ft long 2ft tall 2ft wide
Just sat on timber 2 inches wide just at the ends

This in comparison is a tiny tank
So for a simple solution get a piece of board (9-18mm thick mdf will do) cut to the same size as it’s base

Sit this on the cabinet and put the supplied mat onto It

If there’s a void under the board due to lips on the cabinet you can cut polystyrene to the same dimensions and place it under the board
This will fill the void

Your tank is now fully supported

I would calculate the total weight of the aquarium once complete and then put that weight on the cabinet (people are handy for this)
And see if it’s strong enough and doesn’t move


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Thank you @dean This is what i was starting to think and had started looking online for plywood made to measure.

The filling the gap is a great idea. I overestimated the recess, as i initially said 5mm max. Looking again it can only be 2 or 3mm max so i will need to find something thin to fill in.

I can get 12 to 15mm plywood cut 42cm by 50cm (50cm is the lengrh of the tank, 42cm the depth of my sideboard). I could then sit the provided mat on this, and the aquarium on top of that.

The sideboard is definitely strong enough so that doesn't worry me.

Thank you to all for the advice :)
 

Nick potts

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I can get 12 to 15mm plywood cut 42cm by 50cm (50cm is the lengrh of the tank, 42cm the depth of my sideboard). I could then sit the provided mat on this, and the aquarium on top of that.

The sideboard is definitely strong enough so that doesn't worry me.

Thank you to all for the advice :)

This is going to be the best/easiest solution for you and will mean the tank is fully supported.

Whatever you do decide to do, just don't go with just the mat on the lip, tanks aren't designed for those sorts of forces/situations.
 

Vonbruz

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This is going to be the best/easiest solution for you and will mean the tank is fully supported.

Whatever you do decide to do, just don't go with just the mat on the lip, tanks aren't designed for those sorts of forces/situations.

Thanks @Nick potts - I will go down that route. Like you say, now i've posted it here and i got some feedback, the mat over the lip definitely seems out of the question. I was in denial because it was just 1cm, but realistically it just wouldn't work.

I feel positive about the board and mat on top though. Wish me luck 👍
 

dean

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You can get rolls of Polystyrene’s in decorating shops
It’s about 2mm thick
It’s not dense so it will squash down easily to fill the void between the board and the cabinet


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