Thailandia Sunset

[Hanuman]

Ahh, id love masterline but the cost is quite high... 50 pounds shipped for one bag. What soil would you recommend?

Yeah that's a bit expensive!
I've only ever use 3 soils. BlackEarth Premium, which unfortunately is not produced anymore. It was actually produced in Thailand. This was the best in my opinion. I used Amazonia but it crumbled quite fast. And the latest is MasterSoil which I have been using for 2 years now and I think it’s rather good. Only complain I have is that they only sell the large sized grain here in Thailand because the importer did not import the medium and small size grain versions, but ultimately that's not a big deal. In fact it's a good thing as the soil does not compact as much as with smaller grains.
There are other soils out there, some of which are not found in Europe/USA but I don't think they are as good. One is called CrazyStone which I have been told is weak. I know that Netlea is also producing its soil and Chihiro is also about to release its own both of which will be available internationally. I will probably test it once it's out, but in all honesty I think all these soil are eventually the same. It's just a substrate at the end of the day. Some are more heavily loaded at the beginning than others but that's about it. I think the thing to avoid are substrates with very heavy organics in them but that's only something you know if the manufacturer tells you.

 

[plantnoobdude]

Yeah that's a bit expensive!
I've only ever use 3 soils. BlackEarth Premium, which unfortunately is not produced anymore. It was actually produced in Thailand. This was the best in my opinion. I used Amazonia but it crumbled quite fast. And the latest is MasterSoil which I have been using for 2 years now and I think it rather good. Only complain I have is that they only sell the large sized grain here in Thailand because the importer did not import the medium and small size grain versions, but ultimately that's not a big deal. In fact it's a good thing as the soil does not compact as much as with smaller grains.
There are other soils out there, some of which are not found in Europe/USA but I don't think they are as good. One is called CrazyStone which I have been told is weak. I know that Netlea is also producing its soil and Chihiro is also about to release its own both of which will be available internationally. I will probably test it once it's out, but in all honesty I think all these soil are eventually the same. It's just a substrate at the end of the day. Some are more heavily loaded at the beginning than others but that's about it. I think the thing to avoid are substrates with very heavy organics in them but that's only something you know if the manufacturer tells you.

Well, I can get 9l tropica soil for 36 pounds Inc shipping. Perhaps, I'll try that and I can always try enrich it in the future. I wonder how well it holds up over time though. Oh well, sorry, too much rambling on your journal😬

 

[Hanuman]

Perhaps, I'll try that and I can always try enrich it in the future.

That’s the destiny of all rich substrates in high tech tanks anyway after a few months.

 

[Courtneybst]

BlackEarth Premium, which unfortunately is not produced anymore

I had great success with this too. It was the first proper aquasoil I ever used. Mine eventually lost its structure and compacted but I think that's because I used to rescape constantly.

 

[Hanuman]

Here is some update because things are taking a left turn, or right, depending where you look from.
I have decided to start reducing the intensity of the tank by first lowering the lights intensity. I have lowered RGB by 5% each channel and slightly increased UVa (don't ask me why, I just felt like it 🤷‍♂️). I'll probably reduce an additional 5% to each channel in the next 2 weeks. I will reduce CO2 as well very progressively in the course of the next few weeks since plant demand will decrease and it is not justifiable to keep injecting CO2 like a mad dog. It is getting tiresome to uproot/trim nearly on a weekly basis. In fact today for the first time since I introduced L. Meta in Thailand and my tank, I trimmed it instead of uprooting it as I usually do. This will greatly slow down the plant growth for the next few weeks compared to when uprooting and replanting the tops. Drawback is it won't look pretty for some time, but hey, I can't have it all. Here is a picture from this morning's maintenance and trim.

Trimmed L. Meta at the back of the tank. Rotala bonsai was also partially trimmed. It is more yellowish/pinkish thank usuall. I attribute this to the deep substrate vacuum I did 2 weeks ago which stripped lots of nutrients from the substrate so the plant is probably experiencing some temporary deficiencies. It shall get back on its feet soon enough. I am also considering removing the Limnophila aromatica, Murdannia keisak and Tonina lotus blossom. The first one having some odd growing behavior. It bends for a few weeks before deciding to grow up. This is kind of annoying. The second one because it just grows too fast, plus I want to add a bushier plant. The third one because it keeps randomly melting. I can only grow this plant at its full potential when the soil is new or fairly new packed with nutrients. After that some stems will randomly melt no matter what I do. It is frustrating.

Bucepahlandra Brownie Ghost has stopped growing since tank reset. I expected this as the tank is stabilizing and bucephalandra is usually a slow responder. Eriocaulon quinquangulare on the other hand is doing extremely well after the reset. It is producing nice well formed leaves at a faster rate. This is to show that this plant really does not like a dirty substrate and benefits from regular substrate cleaning.

I have also tweaked my ferts since resetting the tank 2 weeks ago. I basically increased NO3 and K a notch to compensate for the losses generated by the substrate vacuum. I have also decided to increase water hardness from ~6°dGH to ~7°dGH since I am planning to introduce more shrimps in the upcoming weeks. In that regard I have also switched from CaSO4 to CaCl2. Traces remain unchanged. Macros are calculated in relation to WC volume (100L) since I am front loading, hence the discrepancy between system water volume (150L) and volume used to calculate macros. Here is the data for the posterity.

Here is the system summary for ease of read:

With all this said and done, I wish you all a happy weekend.

 

[Hanuman]

Minor update.
Tank is being weened off further light. This morning I reduced the red spectrum a further 5%. I will probably reduce light one more time next week but I will have to play with all 3 colors to make the light look natural. I will decrease it to the point where the total power is around 70% or maybe a bit less. I've also reduced UV. Increasing it last week was silly of me. No real purpose. I have also received my electrical bill, and to say the least, it was nasty. This is due to very high temperatures lately and increased used of airconditionning, so it's a good thing that lights are coming down. Government increased price of KWh by 30% late last year then again in Janauary following the subsidy they gave during covid times. Time to repay I guess since the power supplier has amassed gigantic losses equivalent to 300 000 000 GBP thanks to the subsidy.

Morning picture just after WC. I have removed Lomophilia aromatica from the tank and replaced it with the Pogostemon helferi I had at the front. With time it will grow to occupy the space. This is normally a fore-midground plant but I want to experiment to see how tall the plant can grow and what effect it provides. It will take quite some time though. L. Meta is starting to produce offshoots so that's good. Syngonanthus macrocaulon was also thinned out and trimmed as it had grown too tall.

In place of the Pogostemon helferi that was in front I have added a new plant send to me by a friend: Samolus parviflorus red. I might move it more to the center at a later date depending its growth habit and size.

And this is how a mere leaf can become an invasive plant. So be careful people when throwing out trimmings.

 

[Hanuman]

A quicky.

I removed Murdannia keisak from the tank, I moved Pogostemon helferi from the left to the right side and re-arranged it in a more natural circular/bush way vs how it was before in a row, which made it look pretty unnatural. Syngonanthus macrocaulon was moved to the left in place of the P. helferi. Samolus parviflorus red was moved just in front of the Tonina Lotus Blossom, to the right of the B. Brownie ghost. I think it will show all its beauty in that spot as it is a high light demanding plant.

All this musical chair has its purpose. It will allow better water circulation on the longer term as the Syngonanthus macrocaulon was growing fast enough that it reduced water circulation to the left side of the tank after 2-3 weeks. The right side will now be mostly open since Pogostemon helferi growth very slowly thus flow will not be impeded. In fact I think I will remove the Bucephalandra sp. in front of the Pogostemon helferi and use that space to plant more Pogostemon helferi or maybe some more Samolus parviflorus red to create a thicker bush.

I have not touched light intensity since last time. CO2 has been reduced a tiny bit again during the week. My drop checker is not turning yellow anymore but lime green. I think I'll stop decreasing CO2 now because last week I also cleaned all the hoses and flow increased considerably, which in turn has also contributed in increasing the off-gasing of CO2. I noticed some random leaves of the Syngonanthus macrocaulon actually started to yellow a bit and also spotted some leaf melts. This has never happened before so I attributed this to the lower CO2 levels although can't be sure. I'll see how things go from now on since the plant was also moved to another spot.

 

[plantnoobdude]

A quicky.

I removed Murdannia keisak from the tank, I moved Pogostemon helferi from the left to the right side and re-arranged it in a more natural circular/bush way vs how it was before in a row, which made it look pretty unnatural. Syngonanthus macrocaulon was moved to the left in place of the P. helferi. Samolus parviflorus red was moved just in front of the Tonina Lotus Blossom, to the right of the B. Brownie ghost. I think it will show all its beauty in that spot as it is a high light demanding plant.

All this musical chair has its purpose. It will allow better water circulation on the longer term as the Syngonanthus macrocaulon was growing fast enough that it reduced water circulation to the left side of the tank after 2-3 weeks. The right side will now be mostly open since Pogostemon helferi growth very slowly thus flow will not be impeded. In fact I think I will remove the Bucephalandra sp. in front of the Pogostemon helferi and use that space to plant more Pogostemon helferi or maybe some more Samolus parviflorus red to create a thicker bush.

I have not touched light intensity since last time. CO2 has been reduced a tiny bit again during the week. My drop checker is not turning yellow anymore but lime green. I think I'll stop decreasing CO2 now because last week I also cleaned all the hoses and flow increased considerably, which in turn has also contributed in increasing the off-gasing of CO2. I noticed some random leaves of the Syngonanthus macrocaulon actually started to yellow a bit and also spotted some leaf melts. This has never happened before so I attributed this to the lower CO2 levels although can't be sure. I'll see how things go from now on since the plant was also moved to another spot.

View attachment 205129

View attachment 205130

How's the tank doing now? Been a month since the last update...

 

[Hanuman]

How's the tank doing now? Been a month since the last update...

Thanks for asking mate.
Well not all that well to be honest. Tank has been going downhill for the past few weeks since I started leaning down CO2 and light. I've had multiple problems on different plants. Rotala bonsai has been showing further signs of deficiencies. Xyris are continuing to melt randomly. Toninas, as well, random melts. Bucephalandra brownie ghost has virtually not grown at all since I added it to the stone, only smaller plantlets have grown. E. Quin also have started melting. Only plants that are still doing fine are the L. Meta (although I noticed more side shootings for the past months - typical when parameters aren't stable or there is some deficiency going on somewhere), the S. macrocaulon, the Samolus Parviflorus Red and the Pogostemon helferi. Heat has played a big role in all this but the depleted soil is contributing to a large degree to these issues. One thing is clear, the soil needs changing ASAP.
On top of all of this, I have been experiencing some mix feelings about continuing with this tank/scape as is. The constant weekly uprooting has become more of a chore than anything else and sales have been pretty low for some time. I need to find either 2 new plants to replace the L. meta and S. macrocaulon for slower growing ones or just scrap this scape entirely and start something different that gives me more time/less uprooting, although having a farm tank and selling some plants enabled me to at least cover some costs. Electric bills have been killing me for the past 3 months.
Not sure what to do to be perfectly honest. I did some trimming and replanting this morning. Lights on tank are now off. I'll post some picture tomorrow when I get some time.

 

[Hufsa]

Trying to pivot your tank to something that suits you best sounds like a good plan
If you like the added income, maybe you can ask around and see what plants are in demand?
Sometimes I think it surprises us "fancy folk" that the easiest plants are the ones people want the most. But it might not be like that in Thailand though.
Trying to avoid super fast growers or at least keep less of them is something ive been thinking about too. Eventually the trimming does get a little bit old 😁 Best in moderation.
Maybe you could look to Felipe's old youtube videos to see how he did the slowing down of his plant growth? I remember he was known for it or something.
New soil, decent CO2 (maybe not lowered) and lower light I think makes sense.

 

[PARAGUAY]

We talk about soils substrate becoming depleted after a time, l wonder if it's replenished before it could prevent issues, maybe the EI method ensures less chance of issues?

 

[Hanuman]

If you like the added income, maybe you can ask around and see what plants are in demand?

I know what's in demand. I supply most shops here with rare plants but there comes a moment where the market gets saturated and or others become more proficient a growing certain plants thus dropping the price down significantly.

Sometimes I think it surprises us "fancy folk" that the easiest plants are the ones people want the most. But it might not be like that in Thailand though.

The thing is that easy plants tend to sell for very cheap and there are many people in the market selling. WAY more than in Europe. That's why I don't even bother with those plants. I try not to compete with retailers. I prefer to sell in bulk to shops.

Trying to avoid super fast growers or at least keep less of them is something ive been thinking about too. Eventually the trimming does get a little bit old 😁 Best in moderation.

Actually trimming doesn't bother me that much. It's more the uprooting that does as it is more involved, but yeah it gets old fast if you need to do it every week.

Maybe you could look to Felipe's old youtube videos to see how he did the slowing down of his plant growth? I remember he was known for it or something.

Thanks. Will have a look at it.

New soil, decent CO2 (maybe not lowered) and lower light I think makes sense.

We talk about soils substrate becoming depleted after a time, l wonder if it's replenished before it could prevent issues, maybe the EI method ensures less chance of issues?

Well, technically the soil doesn't get totally depleted as I made it sound. It's mostly N that gets depleted. P and K actually increases with time according to tests done by Tom Barr. You can't easily replenish N into the substrate. You would probably need to re-bake the substrate with some ammonia based compound or the like. I think the other problem is that all the humic and fulvic acids as well as certain micros get depleted or accumulate with time, rendering the soil perhaps not as welcoming to plants than new soil.
I have been using EI dosing for as long as I can remember so that won't replenish the soil with N.

 

[Simon Cole]

I have been using EI dosing for as long as I can remember so that won't replenish the soil with N.

I'm not sure, but I have an inkling that it can and probably does replenish. I am guessing that there are lots of carbon molecules for the nitrates to bind with, and probably a few good cation sites. My old soil science lecturers would be killing me now. I've got to dash to another Morris dancing even - back in 2 days

 

[Hanuman]

I'm not sure, but I have an inkling that it can and probably does replenish. I am guessing that there are lots of carbon molecules for the nitrates to bind with, and probably a few good cation sites. My old soil science lecturers would be killing me now. I've got to dash to another Morris dancing even - back in 2 days

I was a bit quick when writting, I meant NH4. Page 3:

https://barrreport.com/barr-report-resources/old-newsletters/ADA-Aqua-Soil-Power-Soil-Analysis-Barr-Report.pdf

 

[Hanuman]

I'll post some picture tomorrow when I get some time.

Tank after maintenance on past Saturday. I reduced amount of S. macrocaulon. and extented the L. meta at the back. I was just lazy to replant all the S. macrocaulon. I had too much.
E. Quin also was also uprooted. I replanted single plants.

Partially trimmed Rotala bonsai. You can see that leaves are presenting holes. This is a combination of deficiency and shrimps (and perhaps otocinclus) getting a go at damaged rotting leaves.

Bucephalandra Brownie Ghost 2011 growing pretty poorly.

E. Quin harvest. I was lucky, I was able to sell half of it. They were starting to melt considering how compact and overgrown they were but that's not the only reason. I have had much bigger bunches in the past with no melts at all (see last picture).

Such as:

 

[Hanuman]

Enough is enough and all hell has broken loose. This scape (or at least this soil) has gone as far as it could. Now it's the Samulos that's acting up. I am unsure what is going on here so I'll reset the tank and probably just make a new scape if I feel courageous enough.
These will probably be the last pictures I post of the current setup. I've never had such issues in the past, I also have never kept soil this long too, so that could be it. Maybe the soil has accumulated too many micro elements?? I have no clue what's going on.
Everything looks sad, therefore it makes me sad, consequently a change is needed.

Farewell Thailandia Sunset. You've given me joy, work and money (mostly taken money from me actually), but it is now time to part ways.

Hasta la vista, baby.

 

[Hanuman]

It's when you see this kind of shenanigans that you know that it is the beginning of the end. Already found a few people to donate plants to. Sold a good 15 Xyris to some guy in HK. Otocinclus have already been moved to another tank. Ember tetras and cherries will be moved the last.

This weekend will most probably the last for this scape/tank.

 

[Hufsa]

Not shutting the whole thing down permanently right?
Im excited to see the new version with the black lava stones, onwards and upwards to new adventures 😃