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the correct numbers for the tank

F

Fred13

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13 Jul 2016
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Athens
Hello,

As i am getting closer and closer to start up my tank i am considering which are the best numbers about the fauna i am thinking to get.

Tanks size 65 gallon , 100 x 50 x 50.

I am thinking for a school of ember , something like 20 of them.
Otocinclus
panda cories
amano-rcs

How many otocinclus you believe i should get in order to achieve better behaviors and less shyness?
As for panda i guess a group of 6-8 would be nice for them /

Thank you
 
Has anyone noticed a difference in the shyness of Otos in relation to species? It seems like the stripe, gap, tail spot ones I have are more out going than the solid stripe, but I don't have a big sample size.
 
I personally dont know but i guess numbers are the key for all of them..
 
12 otos minimum as I’ve lost for 30/40% of my Otos within a day of introducing them. Also if your tank is containing wood etc then 12 otos will be pretty much unnoticeable.
 
I would have thought that more is better in a mature heavily planted tank. Sheer numbers should mean they interact as a shoal & you see them more. I only have one Otto in a 125L tank I don't see him very often when I do he seems healthy but seems to prefer to eat algae off the wood/plants rather than the glass.
 
:)
If you have the possibility of "algeing up"a few stones ( in a shallow tank, lots a of lights and ferts) you can introduce them in the tank with new Oto's ( or in the quarantine). Most of them havn't eaten in a while when you get them.
 
I've 7 embers, 6 otos and waiting on 8 cory hasbrosus in 15 gallons. The Otos are very active at meal times and early mornings, but can vanish completely too. 20-8-8 would be quite lightly stocked for a 65 gallon. I'd double the oto/cory numbers, but I guess it depends which fish you want to be the noticeable ones. One day I'd quite like a big tank with a giant shoal of Otos, so I'm a bit biased.
 
It's a complicated answer because it depends on a few factors. The size of the tank would allow decent sized groups of each species but it depends on how busy you want the tank to look like and what type of scape you are planning.
20 embers would be a good start in a metre long tank but you'd be surprised how sparse they will look. The same could be said for the other species unless you have large groups.

The best advice I could give is to add fish in small groups and then up their numbers if you think they need it later. I wouldn't be surprised if a group of 40 or so embers would be needed to look good in such a long tank but it does depend on your filtration and what you are trying to achieve. For fish behaviour I think a dozen of each would be the minimum I'd consider and it's really only the pandas that will grow, so you should be able to see what looks right pretty quickly.
 
Oto's seem as described to be a hierarchical schooling fish with quite a induvidial personality. I guess kinda personality is what you need to develop a sense of status in a community. They also seem to be very stress thus kinda emotinaly sensitive which likely stands in relation to this specific characteristic.

I have no idea if this is a typical male and or female behavior and since as far as i know it is realy difficult or maybe even impossible for a simple hobbyist to determine sex and buy them accordingly. than we can only assume maybe both sexes live by the same rules. than it's only obvious that only a rather large number has the best chances to develop healthy equaly balanced hierarchy in the group.

How much is the million dollar qeustion nobody probably realy can't answer.. 10? 20? 30? even more. If you believe the general consensus written in regular databases it's 10 +.. I personaly guess bigger is better.. :)
 
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Your answers were very clear to me and thank you. I kept otos at the past and i still remember that i was glad that i never lost any. Maybe luck? Maybe the lfs i took them had them in a good shape..
I believe i will go by starting with some smaller groups and then add wherever is needed.
My filtration will be pretty powerful but i will go slowly to give time for the bacteria in filter to get stronger.
I will go for 20-8-8 and shrimps . I believe my filter will handle these numbers pretty well at the beggining.
Then i will go for more!
I ll keep you updated! Thank you so much!
 
Ottos are great I have 12 in my 240ltr tank and barely see them. They’re beat in an eatabliahed tank as they seem to eat algae and biofilm and have ignored all my attempts at feeding them algae eaters, cucumber and courgette. They also appear to love shade, often sitting on the underside of leaves at the shadier end of my tank and are most active during night.

This has just been my experience with mine.
 
I had 4 ottos that lived for some good years in a 100G tank. Mine too weren't keen on veggies and I was afraid to add more ottos to that tank in case they ran out of natural food. It wasn't as if I had much visible type of algae suitable as otocinclus food. But they were quite active and definitely not shy at all. You'd notice that in bigger tanks ottos are way livelier. Mine were active and playful, swimming in and out of flow, from side to side of the tank like rockets, doing circles on the glass, etc..They were constantly on the go. At some time I kept a single zebra otto in another planted 100G. I could see it 99% of the time I looked in the tank. It kept going around like a butterfly. Having said that, ottos do like each other's company and would follow one another from time to time, as well as "sit" around together on a branch of wood or a big plant.

I like your choice of stock and I think ottos would be ideal in such a set up, as long as it is cycled and established.
 
Agree but somewhat confused about the use of cyanide - videos I've seen of otocinclus harvesting, show vast numbers of crazy squiggling fish in the net or basket

One lfs brings in Oto's from Brazil or Columbia, these often arrive small - tiny in size, but active & feeding & shop experiences significantly fewer losses
 
To quote from the article...

"For one thing, their diet is less typical than many common fish we keep. German fish keepers refer to Otos as ‘Aufwuchs’ eaters. This is a term they use that means a fish is more or less an obligate algae grazer...Some Otos don’t learn to eat anything other than fresh algae, so feeding them algae tabs/pellets or even fresh veggies, won’t be a guarantee they eat well."

Hallelujah :rolleyes:...I feel somewhat vindicated; this fits in exactly with my own observations. I took a fair amount of flack a while back for my skinny otos...this was after I tried my damnedest to wean the little blighters off algae and on to every conceivable poached vegetable from our own shores, and from the foreign foods isle, and much more besides...this and that brand of algae wafers etc :meh:

Try as I might I've never got them to eat anything that wasn't algae. Which is always a problem since there is never really very much algae in my tanks :confused:

So, I have learnt from experience that as much as I'd like to keep them in the numbers they've become accustom to in their natural environment it's simply unsustainable in an aquarium :bored:

I have two in my current shallow scape and they have fairly well rounded bellies so I guess I've got the balance right, and they seem very happy in each others company ;)
 
I've been finding my ottos appear to be livelier without co2, same for my corys. Also could be oxygen related as the tank they're in now is air driven. I can't honestly say they shoal though as such. They will all hang about in the same area but if a couple wander off and do their own thing they all don't follow. Numbers don't seem to make much of a difference either. I've had 4/5 in and maybe see a group of 3 together the rest out and about, at one point I've had maybe 9/10 and still they seem to stay in a small group of 4. Could be that the small group hang about where I tend to put food, the ones who are out for a wander tend to go back to where the group usually sit and another one will wander off.

Food wise, they seem to spend the majority of their time rasping at decaying leaf litter that's been in for a while, love cucumber, in fact when cucumber is in maybe once a week some just won't move from it all and just balloon. They will push each other out the way when feeding on it. They also particularly like stripping down roots off floating plants and if you have an area of dense floaters there's something in there they like. I suspect that its a bit of a soup of bacteria and decomposing plant matter. Often see mine upside down skimming the surface with their noses poking out the water. Sometime I even poke my finger in there in case they are dead but they always swim off.

As for algae wafers, I did get some small hikari ones but my amanos just snatch them and disappear now they are a good size. When I put big algae wafers in they attract too much attention, every fish in there as having a go at them and the ottos tend to get pushed out, especially by the corys but they do have a go at them. I tend to put them in about 15 mins before lights out so they ottos know they are there in the hope the other fish leave them to it and go to sleep. All I know is in the morning the wafer has gone, who ate is anybody's guess.

That's just my observations after keeping them for a number of years. The small ones in the pic below have only been in the tank one day and took to cucumber straight away. There's also a new one at the bottom feeding of an oak leaf which has been in the tank abut a week. The larger ones I've had for over a year I would say.

ottos.jpg
 
Tim Harrison said:
I feel somewhat vindicated; this fits in exactly with my own observations. I took a fair amount of flack a while back for my skinny otos...this was after I tried my damnedest to wean the little blighters off algae and on to every conceivable poached vegetable from our own shores, and from the foreign foods isle, and much more besides...this and that brand of algae wafers etc
Click to expand...

Besides one otto which I raised from accidental spawning and ate zucchini, the shop bought ones didn't really eat anything else but what was on the glass and plants, hence I never kept a large group although I always wanted. I think that as long as they're in a big tank that provides large surface area for food, and one has a few only, they'd be fine but mine did not last when I moved them to a small tank although I had them for 4 years in a 100G previously. As far as I know, they need access to food 24/7 so even if they get to fish food/veggies, its not enough. And algae never grows when you want it. :p
 
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