To drop acclimate or not?

[CrazyCory42]

I’m planning on buying some fish this Sunday coming, 2 comet goldfish to go into my 500L tank with my lonely 23 year old goldfish and 2 honey gourami to go into my 100L tropical community tank.

Before now, I’ve always used the “plop and drop” technique that many fish people on YouTube advocate for. Basically I let the sealed bag float for around 15 - 20mins in the tank to allow the water temps to match and then I empty the bag into a net and put the fish directly into the tank. I’ve never had any problems with this method.

However….. my tap water is pretty high in nitrates. It sits at 40ppm and so do my tanks. So I’m worried about the shock the sudden raise of nitrate may have and I was wondering if it’s be better for me to drip acclimate instead?

The store I’ll be getting the fish from is about 40min drive so the fish would be in the bag for lets say an hour to get from the shop to my house and then 30mins to drip acclimate. So I don’t think the water quality in the bag will deteriorate to harmful levels in that time. And I feel like slowly raising the nitrate levels in the bag to my tank water will be beneficial and give these new fish the best start possible.

Does what I’m saying make sense? Or have I got it all back to front. What are everyone else’s thoughts on this?

 

[swyftfeet]

The only thing my LFS told me was that drip acclimating can be a danger is when the water in the shipping bag is low pH and your water is higher pH.

This guy deals in a lot of reef & Saltwater fish, he said if I plop and drop some of the rares I get that I sell for $1400, I think its the best method for that $2 tetra.

Basically what he said was that there can be a lot of ammonia in the water after travel, and that if you slowly add water that will raise the pH that the acclimation soup will turn toxic. At low pH ammonia is apparently not toxic at all, but at higher pH it is undeniably so.

Some people are really big proponents of it. Some say its totally dangerous. There's so much superstition in this hobby that its hard to separate fact from fiction.

'Ive only ever bought fish local and plopped and dropped...

 

[Jaseon]

It makes sense to get the fish out of the bag as quickly as possible if they have been in there awhile. The other thing you need to be aware of drip acclimating is temperature not just water parameters. How do you maintain the temperature in the bowl or bag etc your dripping into?

When i first started i would just float the bag in the tank, and only thought about getting the temps right. My shrimp get the treatment, and i even drip the top up.

 

[hypnogogia]

At low pH ammonia is apparently not toxic at all, but at higher pH it is undeniably so.

Indeed. At low pH it’s in the form of ammonium, which is less toxic and above pH of about 7 it starts to be more toxic ammonia.

 

[Hufsa]

For short trips you can gradually acclimate them. Plop and drop is intended for fishes who have traveled at least overnight and where you suspect the bag water might not be that great (short version of it)

 

[brhau]

If you’re worried about ammonia, you can add some water conditioner to the bag. I think slow acclimation is more important when there’s a big pH difference or if you’re going from high TDS to low TDS. If there isn’t a huge differential, I would just float the bag to match the temperature and then plop/drop.

 

[Jaseon]

Plop n drop making me want to sit on the bog.

 

[jaypeecee]

Hi Folks,

I've never been in the situation where the time interval from LFS to one of my tanks has been more than 30 minutes. But, if I was having fish delivered to my door from an online supplier, I would see what they had to say about the plop 'n' drop method. That's assuming I was buying from a supplier that is trustworthy. I'd also see what others had to say on this topic at my local fish club.

JPC

 

[MichaelJ]

When practical I've always done drip acclimation or similar (adding tank water to a holding container at a slow rate)... For instance, when I introduced shrimps a while back they all went through drip acclimation and I didn't loose a single one despite my high TDS at that time (i.e. the difference from the breeders TDS and the TDS in my tanks being the important bit) - if I had just plunked them in I am pretty sure they would have died from TDS shock.... Shrimps are different from gourami's and gold fish of course, but ideally you want to gauge the water they came from at the LFS or breeder (TDS and pH in particular and the temp in the transportation water). If your tank water is wildly different, drip acclimation may not cut it, so its always good to know what the situation is up front - again, depending on the livestock. If your doing drip acclimation a drop or two of Prime is always a good idea to quell any possibility of ammonia toxication from relatively large upwards shifts in pH.



Cheers,
Michael

 

[shangman]

I think if you have a high tech tank then drip acclimation is essential. I put in some cardinal tetras quickly once after floating and they all went to the surface almost immediately and were like passing out. Luckily that made it really easy to catch so I netted them all back into the bag water where they recovered over 10 mins. Then I did a drip acclimate over an hour and they went in totally fine after that, no problems. Really freaked me out though. Even in my lowtechs I drip acclimate everything still after that lol.

 

[Jaseon]

I think there's a time to drip, and a time to plop n drop Both have their merits?

 

[arcturus]

Basically what he said was that there can be a lot of ammonia in the water after travel, and that if you slowly add water that will raise the pH that the acclimation soup will turn toxic. At low pH ammonia is apparently not toxic at all, but at higher pH it is undeniably so.

Correct, toxic ammonia (NH3) is in the form of less toxic ammonium (NH4) when the water is acidic. But the rest of the reasoning is wrong. The problem is not drip acclimation but opening the bag! Once the water in the bag is exposed to atmospheric air the pH can increase rather quickly. In contrast, it will take a very long time for the drips of tank water to start changing the pH. The problem is that people do drip acclimation by opening the bag and then letting the water slowing drip into it. If fish die in the process they wrongly blame drip acclimation. However, the fish would have died if the bag was just left open. This is the reason why a drop of water conditioner should be added to the bag if you plan to leave it open for a more than a couple of minutes.

This guy deals in a lot of reef & Saltwater fish....

Some people are really big proponents of it. Some say its totally dangerous. There's so much superstition in this hobby that its hard to separate fact from fiction.

Floating the bag in tank water to equalize temperature followed by plop and drop assumes that dKH, overall TDS, pH, and CO2 concentration of the tank water are similar to that in the bag. This can be true in reef/marine tanks since the water parameters are often tightly controlled. However, this reasoning may not apply to high-end aquascapes, because they can have water parameters quite different than the fish farm's (and will be very different if livestock is added during CO2 injection). If the fish farm keeps the water at say 10° dKH and your tank is run at 3° dKH, then the livestock will suffer osmotic shock if you use plop and drop. Same reasoning applies to the other water parameters. The only superstition here is assuming that water parameters will be magically the same or that the livestock will survive the shock

 

[MichaelJ]

Correct, toxic ammonia (NH3) is in the form of less toxic ammonium (NH4) when the water is acidic. But the rest of the reasoning is wrong. The problem is not drip acclimation but opening the bag! Once the water in the bag is exposed to atmospheric air the pH can increase rather quickly. In contrast, it will take a very long time for the drips of tank water to start changing the pH. The problem is that people do drip acclimation by opening the bag and then letting the water slowing drip into it. If fish die in the process they wrongly blame drip acclimation. However, the fish would have died if the bag was just left open. This is the reason why a drop of water conditioner should be added to the bag if you plan to leave it open for a more than a couple of minutes.

View attachment 182304


Floating the bag in tank water to equalize temperature followed by plop and drop assumes that dKH, overall TDS, pH, and CO2 concentration of the tank water are similar to that in the bag. This can be true in reef/marine tanks since the water parameters are often tightly controlled. However, this reasoning may not apply to high-end aquascapes, because they can have water parameters quite different than the fish farm's (and will be very different if livestock is added during CO2 injection). If the fish farm keeps the water at say 10° dKH and your tank is run at 3° dKH, then the livestock will suffer osmotic shock if you use plop and drop. Same reasoning applies to the other water parameters. The only superstition here is assuming that water parameters will be magically the same or that the livestock will survive the shock

Good deep dive explanation there @arcturus ! 👍

 

[AlecF]

I pour the bag contents into a plastic tub and immediately add some floating plants and moss to help them feel safe. Then I drip, because of TDS as well as PH. Adding water conditioner makes sense. Maybe almond leaves.

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

Basically I let the sealed bag float for around 15 - 20mins in the tank to allow the water temps to match and then I empty the bag into a net and put the fish directly into the tank. I’ve never had any problems with this method.

I use the <"swiftly into the tank method "> as well. I'm not a CO2 user, if I was? I'd definitely not introduce the fish while the CO2 was on.

cheers Darrel

 

[swyftfeet]

Correct, toxic ammonia (NH3) is in the form of less toxic ammonium (NH4) when the water is acidic. But the rest of the reasoning is wrong. The problem is not drip acclimation but opening the bag! Once the water in the bag is exposed to atmospheric air the pH can increase rather quickly. In contrast, it will take a very long time for the drips of tank water to start changing the pH. The problem is that people do drip acclimation by opening the bag and then letting the water slowing drip into it. If fish die in the process they wrongly blame drip acclimation. However, the fish would have died if the bag was just left open. This is the reason why a drop of water conditioner should be added to the bag if you plan to leave it open for a more than a couple of minutes.

View attachment 182304


Floating the bag in tank water to equalize temperature followed by plop and drop assumes that dKH, overall TDS, pH, and CO2 concentration of the tank water are similar to that in the bag. This can be true in reef/marine tanks since the water parameters are often tightly controlled. However, this reasoning may not apply to high-end aquascapes, because they can have water parameters quite different than the fish farm's (and will be very different if livestock is added during CO2 injection). If the fish farm keeps the water at say 10° dKH and your tank is run at 3° dKH, then the livestock will suffer osmotic shock if you use plop and drop. Same reasoning applies to the other water parameters. The only superstition here is assuming that water parameters will be magically the same or that the livestock will survive the shock

So you posit that the CO2 leaving the water via exposure to normal air contributes more than adding fluid with higher pH?

I am definitely not a chemist ( I honestly struggled with it in both grade school and at university, my brain just does not want to get to that epiphiny point with any of it), but it seems weird to me that water can de-gas CO2 that fast. I would think b/c pH is logarithmic that a tiny fraction of buffer is all it would take to make wild swings.

In the end, I dont think it matters much tho, since someone drip acclimating is going to expose that water to the air anyway. Those fish are gonna get it seven ways from sunday. I have no idea what osmotic shock is, im gonna go attempt to learn about that next.

I thought there was dubious evidence that Prime "arrests" ammonia. Maybe it was Nitrite or Nitrate. I have attempted to consume too much information in the last two months so my memory is crap.

 

[arcturus]

So you posit that the CO2 leaving the water via exposure to normal air contributes more than adding fluid with higher pH?

I am definitely not a chemist ( I honestly struggled with it in both grade school and at university, my brain just does not want to get to that epiphiny point with any of it), but it seems weird to me that water can de-gas CO2 that fast. I would think b/c pH is logarithmic that a tiny fraction of buffer is all it would take to make wild swings.

Fish are transported in air tight bags, which were deflated and filled with oxygen prior to sealing the bag. This process saturates the water with dissolved oxygen. If oxygen is not added to the bag the fish would only manage to survive a couple of hours. During transport, fish generate metabolic waste, which raises ammonia. Due to fish respiration, the oxygen levels in the bag are continuously decreasing and carbon dioxide levels increasing. As a result, pH will gradually drop. This is actually positive side-effect because the ammonia is rendered as the less-toxic ionized ammonium. Since the fish bag water is saturated with dissolved oxygen, the concentration of CO2 will not be an issue if the transportation time takes a reasonable amount of time.

When the fish bag arrives home, raising its temperature will cause the first set of problems. First, the ratio of ammonium to ammonia depends not only on pH but also on temperature. So, increasing the temperature increases the percentage of toxic ammonia. Second, the concentration of dissolved gases (O2 and CO2 in this case) will drop as temperature increases. This will reduce the amount of dissolved oxygen. Opening the bag will cause the second set of problems because the levels of dissolved gases will drop to atmospheric equilibrium, which can can raise pH. Combined with the temperature increase, this can lead to toxic ammonia levels. You can find a <more detailed explanation here>. The changes of pH due to the drops of tank water would take hours to become visible.

In the end, I dont think it matters much tho, since someone drip acclimating is going to expose that water to the air anyway. Those fish are gonna get it seven ways from sunday. I have no idea what osmotic shock is, im gonna go attempt to learn about that next.

Drip acclimation poses a risk because of the potential ammonia spike due to the reasons stated above, but not because we are mixing tank water with fish bag water. The plop and drop has advantages in this respect (assuming the bag remains closed right until the fish are put in the tank). However, the plop and drop does absolutely nothing to address <osmotic shock>, which can stress and/or kill livestock. Basically, the water inside the cells of the fish is in equilibrium with the water outside the cells. If the concentration of dissolved substances in the water decreases, then the water in the cells will flow out to compensate for the difference. If it increases, the water will flow into the cell. If this process (which is an osmotic process) happens quickly, then the walls of the cell can be damaged, or the cells can implode or explode. If this happens, you have osmotic shock. To circumvent this, the concentration of dissolved substances must change slowly (the problem is not the total amount of dissolved substances, but how fast it changes). This requires a long and slow acclimation, which is exactly what drip acclimation aims at. Osmotic shock is a different process than decompression sickness ("the bends"), but the general idea is the same: the body needs time to compensate for the difference in dissolved salts (osmotic shock) or pressure (decompression sickness).

I thought there was dubious evidence that Prime "arrests" ammonia. Maybe it was Nitrite or Nitrate. I have attempted to consume too much information in the last two months so my memory is crap.

Prime, as well as other dechlorinators, target chlorine and chloramine. Removing chloramine from the water actually generates ammonia in the process (chloramine is chlorine bound to ammonia). For this reason, some of these products contain additional chemicals that bind to ammonia. But they do not remove the ammonia from the water. Afaik, ammonia detoxifier products (which are not dechlorinators) work in the same way, i.e. they only temporarily bind to ammonia so that plants and nitrification bacteria can deal with it later.

 

[Jaseon]

I think we also need to take into account time in the bag, and how many livestock you have in there. Shrimp are not going to produce waste that a bag full of goldfish are going to do. Do people buy goldfish anymore?

 

[arcturus]

I think we also need to take into account time in the bag, and how many livestock you have in there.

Exactly. The posts above link to the FAO regulations and guidelines about fish transportation. These should be observed when ornamental fish are imported, as well when local fish farms/breeders ship to the LFS, or to the end customer. If these guidelines are actually respected or not is another discussion.

Shrimp are not going to produce waste that a bag full of goldfish are going to do.

Shrimp are an ideal candidate for drip acclimation due to the reduced bio-load. Dwarf shrimp are very sensitive to osmotic shock. A rapid swing of 1-2° dKH can promote molting because of the minor shock. Higher rapid swings can lead to severe osmotic shock and death after a few days. Since most shrimp can thrive in a wide range of KH and GH, acclimation can be problematic because the difference of the water parameters between your tank and the breeder's tank can be huge. For example, a local shrimp breeder sells neocaridina sp. kept in tanks with tap water (~8° dKH, ~14° dGH) as well as in tanks with remineralized RO water (~2° dKH, ~6° dGH) to cater for customers with different water parameters. Otherwise, placing a shrimp bred in soft RO water into a hard water tank would take days (not a few hours) of acclimation.

 

[Conort2]

Normally quickly in to the tank. However if you know you’re purchasing fish that day leave your CO2 and lights off. Fish out of a bag and into CO2 enriched water can struggle.