TPN v PMDD Trace

Discussion in 'Aquarium Fert Dosing' started by Dave Spencer, 18 Jul 2007.

  1. Dave Spencer

    Dave Spencer Member

    Messages:
    1,389
    Location:
    N. Wales
    Has anybody noticed any significant improvement in dosing Tropica trace as opposed to powdered trace from AquaEssentials?

    I have tried both, but I haven`t seen any real difference at all, and certainly not enough to justify the cost of continuing to use Tropica.

    It would be interesting to hear about any observations other people have.

    Dave.
     
  2. JamesC

    JamesC Member

    Messages:
    1,276
    Location:
    Bexley, Kent
    To put it simply 'No' I used Garden Direct's trace mix for a long time but then switched over to AE's trace mix and then to Tropica. Now going back to AE's traces and am looking carefully to see any difference. I am added extra iron trace to AE's mix though as I have plenty left over from when I mixed my own from Garden Direct.

    James
     
  3. zig

    zig Member

    Messages:
    686
    Location:
    Dublin Ireland
    Tom Barr is bringing out a new trace mix which should be very interesting, actually he's bringing out a selection of new powdered trace mixes in the next while , he says these will be on par with TPN if not better, and personally I wouldn't doubt him. Should save us all quite a bit of money, dosing TPN for a larger tank is out of my reach anyway, it works out way too expensive when I compare it to good old CSM+B.

    Watch this space, Tom reckons they will be available in the next few weeks or so.
     
  4. Themuleous

    Themuleous Member

    Messages:
    4,126
    Location:
    Aston, Oxfordshire
    Did tom's ferts ever hit the shelves? Does anyone know?
     
  5. JamesC

    JamesC Member

    Messages:
    1,276
    Location:
    Bexley, Kent
    I believe he is still in the testing stage. Possibly later this year to go on sale.

    James
     
  6. George Farmer

    George Farmer Founder Staff Member

    Messages:
    7,089
    Location:
    Cambridgeshire
    I think the main difference in Tropica stuff is the chelating agents.
     
  7. Themuleous

    Themuleous Member

    Messages:
    4,126
    Location:
    Aston, Oxfordshire
    Would that make theirs more expensive George? Could that improve the plant nutrient uptake ability? Didn't realise you could get different types of chelation! :?

    Sam
     
  8. JamesC

    JamesC Member

    Messages:
    1,276
    Location:
    Bexley, Kent
    A chelator is an organic chemical that bonds with and removes free metal ions from solutions. EDTA is a popular one that is added to water conditioners to mop up any free metal irons (heavy metals as normally printed on the bottle).

    Tropica I think uses DTPH and trace mixes often use DTPA and EDTA I believe. Different chelators have different bond strengths so holding on to the metal ion a different length of time. Some are more susceptable to light. The actual metal ions are exactly the same. What the difference it all makes to our plants I don't know but I've never noticed any difference using the different ones.

    James
     
  9. Themuleous

    Themuleous Member

    Messages:
    4,126
    Location:
    Aston, Oxfordshire
    Interesting James, cheers :) never was a chemist.

    Sam
     
  10. zig

    zig Member

    Messages:
    686
    Location:
    Dublin Ireland
    I don't think its worth the extra cost tbh, cant say I ever noticed any difference between TPN and what I currently use CSM+B and I have both. Won't be buying it again.

    I will probably use the Tom Barr magic bean powder if it ever hits the streets.
     
  11. Ivan

    Ivan Member

    Messages:
    32
    Location:
    Meltham
    Ok, so what would be the recomended trace for 400 litres of monster? I'm using the Tropica master grow stuff at the moment. It was fine in my 45 gal, but I wasn't adding macro's. I am realising I am more green about all this than I thought.
    Great site this.
    Cheers.
     
  12. ceg4048

    ceg4048 Expert/Global Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    8,937
    Location:
    Chicago, USA
    Hi,

    400 liters should receive about 80 ml per week and you can add it all at once or break it up into any convenient portions (40 ml twice a week or 27 ml 3 times a week for example)

    Cheers,
     
  13. Dave Spencer

    Dave Spencer Member

    Messages:
    1,389
    Location:
    N. Wales
    Judging by people`s response to my initial question, your most cost effective option would be to buy the powdered trace from AquaEssentials. It would appear to be every bit as good as Tropica Plant Nutrition.

    Dave.
     
  14. nry

    nry Member

    Messages:
    1,239
    Location:
    Cumbria, UK
    Only thing I have ever found is that Tropica PN does not cloud my water - both the AE mix and SeaChem Flourish clouded my water pretty badly. Using Tropica PN keeps it crystal clear.
     
  15. George Farmer

    George Farmer Founder Staff Member

    Messages:
    7,089
    Location:
    Cambridgeshire
    The chelating agents in TPN are better than trace powder, according to Tom Barr.
     
  16. beeky

    beeky Member

    Messages:
    879
    Location:
    Chippenham, Wiltshire
    Does that just mean it holds onto the metal for longer, giving more of a 'slow release" than the fast hit powder?
     
  17. JamesC

    JamesC Member

    Messages:
    1,276
    Location:
    Bexley, Kent
    Basically yes. Different chelators have different bonding strengths when in solution. They are affected by UV and strong light amongst other things and will break down when exposed to these. Tropica's trace is supposed to last longer than cheaper ones using EDTA as the chelator. Does is really matter? Probably not if you dose everyday or every other day but if you dose once a week then it may do.

    If the chelator breaks down too quick then you sometimes get clouding of the water. Not sure if this is iron reacting with phosphate or not? Sometimes for reasons unknown to me hard water can cause cloudiness. Switching to Tropica fixes these problems.

    James
     
  18. daniel19831123

    daniel19831123 Member

    Messages:
    736
    Location:
    Blackpool
    When I first read the topic, I haven't got a clue what TPN was for. AS far as I am aware, the only TPN that stands out is total parenteral nutrition i.e. the final line of treatment for someone who can't eat or digest any food. Finally the curiosity got hold of me to see how TPN works in plants and I was laughing my blahblahblahblah off when I found out the TPN stands for Tropica Plant Nutrient. lol
     

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