Updating lighting advice

SRP3006

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Hi all,
Tank has been running for a while under 3 Tmc grobeam 1500 tiles. The tiles are on 100% but can't get the colours to really pop on the plants. Also the colour plus version sends a few red beams into the tank which I'm really not a fan of.
So I'm after a led, that can punch down to 24inches and also help my plants colour up. I've been looking at the kessil 160we tuna sun and the prime hd freshwater. Both of which I think I will need 3. I am leaning towards the prime due to controllability. Has anyone got any views on these lights or any other lights for that matter?

Tank is 48x24x24 hooded, but an open hood. Co2 injected and EI Dosing.

Thanks.

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Zeus.

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Have four 160 tuna suns on my 500l and some T5s, the 160s lack the red output and are spot lights which can work well if going for an island like Scape and dimmable down to 10% intensity the spectrum output is mainly in the 6500K, but in the outer range of the spotlight the output soon falls off hence I fitted T5s around the perimeter.

I would go for ADA RGB Solaris if they was dimmable, seen them at Green Aqua and OMG, but not cheap but the colours :eek::eek::eek:

Aquarium Gardens stock them too and also have a different make with Dave and Steve are impressive with but haven't been down to see it and also similar price I think!
 

SRP3006

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I have looked at kessils and TBH i think I need 3 above my tank. They are said to give a 24x24in spread (read 16x16in real terms I expect). I believe they would be a massive improvement on the TMCs.

I have looked at twinstar as they are highly recommended and can see plenty of aquascapes with them on but if I remember correct @Zeus u have a ND aquatics tank like me and i struggle to see how I'd fix a twinstar without it being a pita at water change time.

Due to the cost of the extra controller on the kessils compared to the primes having built in WiFi, I can't see many other differences between them.

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SRP3006

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Gently floated the idea and price of these lights to the other half. No way I could push that boundary any further

I have read quite a few reviews about these lights but always good to get someone's opinion.
It's also difficult to find any real par data for the kessils or AI prime, just so I can see how much of a increase I'll be gaining.

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SRP3006

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I find it really annoying there's no PAR data :mad: it would help even if it was just done in air
Exactly, that way we could easily compare different fixtures.

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Craig Hill

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i have a prime on my new scape, its not done yet so cant give any advice, but ive got 4 prime HD over my reef tank and they are proven to work, they really arent that well known or used in freshwater tanks, but in saltwater tanks they are highly regarded.
 

SRP3006

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i have a prime on my new scape, its not done yet so cant give any advice, but ive got 4 prime HD over my reef tank and they are proven to work, they really arent that well known or used in freshwater tanks, but in saltwater tanks they are highly regarded.
How do you find the app/controls? It's reported to be buggy.

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Craig Hill

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How do you find the app/controls? It's reported to be buggy.

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its great imo, i have only had one negative experience with it, i started with 3 lights, running one parent/2 child, and adding a 3rd child was a pain, i ended up having to factory reset all the lights then adding all the lights together, it wouldnt add another child onto an existing parent/child set up.

I also run 2 nero 5 wavemakers off the my AI app with no issues also.
 

SRP3006

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Thanks, just looked up the nero 5. Very nice bit of kit

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SRP3006

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Has anyone on here used the prime for freshwater?
Or used a twinstar on a hooded tank? (without suspending)

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alto

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difficult to find any real par data for the kessils or AI prime
I find it really annoying there's no PAR data :mad: it would help even if it was just done in air
Sanjay Joshi did test and publish PAR data for Kessil and AI Primes (FW and Marine versions), at some point Kessil requested the data be removed for the same reasons that Giesemann gives (Kessil data had been up for a couple years at that point :confused:, I don’t know if the Giesemann light data was also removed)

(FWIW these studies did influence my choice of Kessil over AI Prime, I expect the newish AI Prime HD should out-PAR the Kessil A160 ... at the time, Kessil was significantly more efficient re watt vs PAR, Kessil maintains intensity as spectrum is tuned - you can find online interviews from Kessil re why they do what they do)

This article was supported by Orphek - data was collected by Dr Sanjay Joshi, you may still be able to find the experimental data over at Advanced Aquarist, after the site shutdown for maintenance (rumoured hack but I’ve no idea) I couldn’t find many of the Light Analysis articles which he’s been doing for years following the developments of T5’s, HOT5, PC, MH, LED ... most of his work was done with Marine type lighting, and some FW versions when available

https://orphek.com/par-test-atlantik-wifi-reef-led-series-by-dr-sanjay/

The graphs give you an idea of lighting intensity and distribution
 

alto

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I've been looking at the kessil 160we tuna sun and the prime hd freshwater
I’d recommend the Kessil 360X - “better” spectrum than the 160/360 series (which in turn had improved upon the A150/360’s) and 2 360X would deliver significantly better substrate PAR than 3 A160
Contact Scaped Nature, Aquarium Gardens, Riverwood Aquatics (and various lfs) - I don’t recall which shop had both A160 and 360X on display tanks

Look at what’s available locally
 

SRP3006

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Thanks guys, some serious light detail/information that I will need to read several times to let it sink in.

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Siege

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@SRP3006 Personally I’d go with the Twinstar 1200 SA. A lot of light for the money. Half the price of 2 X Kessil and arguably a nicer light.

People do use them under a hood also. Either with arms removed (they slot out) or with the arms shortened/amended so they stand on the bracing.

Like Zeus says the next step up is only Maxlight or ADA Solar RGB but the cost increases massively.
 

SRP3006

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I’d recommend the Kessil 360X - “better” spectrum than the 160/360 series (which in turn had improved upon the A150/360’s) and 2 360X would deliver significantly better substrate PAR than 3 A160
Contact Scaped Nature, Aquarium Gardens, Riverwood Aquatics (and various lfs) - I don’t recall which shop had both A160 and 360X on display tanks

Look at what’s available locally
That's a hefty price tag after buying the extra add on controller, is the extra worth it compared to a prime hd? Just curious to be honest. Without any real data on the lights its hard to compare one to one with statistics.

Also would 2 360x's give me enough coverage on my footprint, ie not shaded areas?
 

Siege

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2 would cover it but you are always going to get shaded areas with kessil, shadows is kinda their point if that makes sense. You also gotta like that shimmer.......!

Depending on where you are may be worth visiting Aquarium Gardens to look at the lights in real life.
 

SRP3006

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@SRP3006 Personally I’d go with the Twinstar 1200 SA. A lot of light for the money. Half the price of 2 X Kessil and arguably a nicer light.

People do use them under a hood also. Either with arms removed (they slot out) or with the arms shortened/amended so they stand on the bracing.

Like Zeus says the next step up is only Maxlight or ADA Solar RGB but the cost increases massively.

I have a nd aquatics hood, I don't use the cover as it's a pita. But the hood needs to come off for water changes and substrate depth trimming etc, as the 2ft depth makes it hard work.
Im not great at DIY at all and I struggle to see how I would attach the light without it being a nightmare when I need to remove the hood.

I'm trying to persuade the boss that suspending from the ceiling would be very 'modern' but it's not working especially on the 'yo yo' wire cables I've seen on Jurijs Jutjajevs' you tube channel.

Also does the twinstar have the power to supply decent strength light to 2ft down, as most squaping tanks are shallower.

But I do like the look of the twinstar and the price tag is a lot better, also they are used by a lot of pro Aquascapers.

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